Comments on post #3062046

@Garrus on post #3062046 (napoleon bonaparte (fate and 1 more) drawn by kiritachi)

2018-07-16T19:15:34-04:00

HaroldRowsdower said:

Indeed. I refuse to acknowledge him as a faithful adaptation of the man until such time as he gets an alternate skin or alternate-class-version where his beard is on fire.

He does talk about it, at least. Been I while since I checked his lines or gone through the Okeanos story though.

@HaroldRowsdower on post #3062046 (napoleon bonaparte (fate and 1 more) drawn by kiritachi)

2018-07-16T18:30:27-04:00

NWSiaCB said:

That said, when it's something like Edward Teach, they're clearly trying to go more for the actual guy, and when you mix them all up together, the ones that have some resemblance to reality, but have something really obviously off about them really stand out.

azurelorochi said:

Also while they did try to nail Teach with the looks, I think it's only because his name "Blackbeard" is just too popular that trying to make a character without the beard would have been sillier. Depiction of his personality still is completely balls off of trying to be accurate though, though it just seems to stem from the fact "Kurohige" is such a popular children's toy.

Indeed. I refuse to acknowledge him as a faithful adaptation of the man until such time as he gets an alternate skin or alternate-class-version where his beard is on fire.

@azurelorochi on post #3062046 (napoleon bonaparte (fate and 1 more) drawn by kiritachi)

2018-07-15T23:01:07-04:00

NWSiaCB said:

Stuffs

It's jarring for characters who we not only have photographs of, but said photograph look is pretty iconic(Tesla, for example).

In Edison's case it's more of Typemoon acting on its OCD on trying to make characters "special" by adding new dumb lore rule that applies to that and only that character. They acknowledge the "real" Edison doesn't have a lion head but this one is transformed through some contract with other US presidents or whatever. It's being convoluted for being convoluted sake, because the Japanese language literally doesn't have a word for "convoluted", so they think any type of complexity means depth when in reality it's just annoying.

It's also jarring when you look to the opposite end with characters like Minamoto no Yorimoto or Attila which simply goes "screw any attempts of being faithful or handling this character with any sort of intellect, we gotta appease our dicks".

Also while they did try to nail Teach with the looks, I think it's only because his name "Blackbeard" is just too popular that trying to make a character without the beard would have been sillier. Depiction of his personality still is completely balls off of trying to be accurate though, though it just seems to stem from the fact "Kurohige" is such a popular children's toy.

So while I did find it surprising they didn't try go for a shota Napoleon "because he's short", having a macho goatee guy is something that is at least far more acceptable in comparison to the rest.

@NWSiaCB on post #3062046 (napoleon bonaparte (fate and 1 more) drawn by kiritachi)

2018-07-15T18:08:55-04:00

HaroldRowsdower said:

They've literally been doing that since at least Fate/Extra. We have coin-portraits and very lifelike statues of Nero from the time of his reign, and he looked more like the fans (the man was heavyse and literally had a neckbeard) than he does the waifu.

That's a straight genderflipping and Saberfacing, though, so they're not even pretending with that one.... You just have to roll your eyes and mutter something about how they're using some historical name for some obviously entirely fictional creation to add more Sabers into the universe for most of the "actually was a woman all along" (which starts from the very beginning with OG Saber). The same goes for Thomas Edison having a freakin' lion head. I mean, I'm not going to get too angry about how Fubuki doesn't look like a matte gray ship hull, either.

That said, when it's something like Edward Teach, they're clearly trying to go more for the actual guy, and when you mix them all up together, the ones that have some resemblance to reality, but have something really obviously off about them really stand out.

@HaroldRowsdower on post #3062046 (napoleon bonaparte (fate and 1 more) drawn by kiritachi)

2018-07-15T17:50:16-04:00

NWSiaCB said:

It's really weird to see them make up their own version of people like Napoleon, though. Making up a look for King Arthur or Jeanne d'Arc is one thing, because you had, at most, illustrations of them to go off of, but people KNOW what people like Florence Nightengale look like.

They've literally been doing that since at least Fate/Extra. We have coin-portraits and very lifelike statues of Nero from the time of his reign, and he looked more like the fans (the man was heavyse and literally had a neckbeard) than he does the waifu.

@Garrus on post #3062046 (napoleon bonaparte (fate and 1 more) drawn by kiritachi)

2018-07-15T17:30:02-04:00

Except he wasn't actually that short. Funnily enough, if he's summoned in Rider he IS short because of the myth, but that doesn't apply when he's summoned as an Archer.

@NWSiaCB on post #3062046 (napoleon bonaparte (fate and 1 more) drawn by kiritachi)

2018-07-15T16:04:19-04:00

It's really weird to see them make up their own version of people like Napoleon, though. Making up a look for King Arthur or Jeanne d'Arc is one thing, because you had, at most, illustrations of them to go off of, but people KNOW what people like Florence Nightengale look like.

I mean, when I was growing up, this portrait of Napoleon was in my mother's bedroom, and I saw it all the time as I was growing up, so I will never, ever see him as anything else.

Furthermore, the entire phrase "Napoleon complex" explicitly refers to someone having an inferiority complex because of being short, so you just absolutely CANNOT make a tall Napoleon...

@Heldrik on post #3062046 (napoleon bonaparte (fate and 1 more) drawn by kiritachi)

2018-07-15T15:53:06-04:00

Konekochan said:

I mean, Japan aside, the French do have a fair share of Servants in this game

Add England and you have the triumvirat of biggest Servant-supplying countries.

@Konekochan on post #3062046 (napoleon bonaparte (fate and 1 more) drawn by kiritachi)

2018-07-14T09:42:45-04:00

Heldrik said:

Damn, feels so good to be French.

I really wanted Napoléon as a Servant, and I am not disappointed to have him as a bearded manly hunk like Iskandar. Must be a great conqueror thing, I guess...

Gloire à l'Empereur !

I mean, Japan aside, the French do have a fair share of Servants in this game

@Heldrik on post #3062046 (napoleon bonaparte (fate and 1 more) drawn by kiritachi)

2018-07-14T06:25:53-04:00

Damn, feels so good to be French.

I really wanted Napoléon as a Servant, and I am not disappointed to have him as a bearded manly hunk like Iskandar. Must be a great conqueror thing, I guess...

Gloire à l'Empereur !

@Shebadotfr on post #3062046 (napoleon bonaparte (fate and 1 more) drawn by kiritachi)

2018-07-13T05:30:44-04:00

Confirmed to be Napoleon in the gacha of July 13th, just before the French Bastille Day.

@cd_young on post #3062046 (napoleon bonaparte (fate and 1 more) drawn by kiritachi)

2018-03-28T14:02:12-04:00

Garrus said:

Could this be Ivan the Terrible? We know the first Lostbelt is related to Russia. Per what Azure said about his weapon's apparent age, he IS from the 15th century, but I'm unaware of any deeds that would earn him the Archer class.

he's very clearly nautically themed, what with having a fifteen pounder over his shoulder and his admiralty jacket,

@Garrus on post #3062046 (napoleon bonaparte (fate and 1 more) drawn by kiritachi)

2018-03-28T12:09:25-04:00

Could this be Ivan the Terrible? We know the first Lostbelt is related to Russia. Per what Azure said about his weapon's apparent age, he IS from the 15th century, but I'm unaware of any deeds that would earn him the Archer class.

@azurelorochi on post #3062046 (napoleon bonaparte (fate and 1 more) drawn by kiritachi)

2018-03-28T07:31:31-04:00

Shebadotfr said:

I said: Japan "thinks". And it wont be the first time that they are not as period-accurate in term of weaponry and clothing. If you looked at some Napoleon's portraits, and bara it up, like it happened to the most famous representations of Alexander and Hijikata, you'd understand why a lot of Japanese jumped at this conclusion.

And my point is exactly that. If any "man with European military uniform who fought in a war with cannons" is the only thing to go by, you'd get far, far, far, far more candidates to choose from. And in theory any one of them could've been "bara'd up" as you said. Yet those were all the evidence Napoleon supporters had to offer in this speculation.

And considering his trailer mentioned nothing of him being any sort of royalty, I highly doubt "he's a foil to Iskander" is a legit reasoning either.

Again, my point is no one is saying why he must be Napoleon but could not be Peter the Great, George Washington, Captain Cook, Robert E Lee, Hayreddin Barbarossa, etc. The only reason I see people think he's Napoleon is only because he's the most famous one among the speculated list.

@Shebadotfr on post #3062046 (napoleon bonaparte (fate and 1 more) drawn by kiritachi)

2018-03-28T04:49:44-04:00

azurelorochi said:

Because "popular theory = confirmed"? Nah. People are just most likely to jump on the name they recognize.

I'm not trying to push any other name before Napoleon, so yeah I guess you can say he's the "best guess" we have so far. I'm just not convinced at the evidences people give based on clothing(wrong color from Napoleon) and cannon(wrong era from Napoleon).

On those grounds there's as much chance this character is Napoleon as much as he is George Washington or Captain Cook.

I said: Japan "thinks". And it wont be the first time that they are not as period-accurate in term of weaponry and clothing. If you looked at some Napoleon's portraits, and bara it up, like it happened to the most famous representations of Alexander and Hijikata, you'd understand why a lot of Japanese jumped at this conclusion.

@Garrus on post #3062046 (napoleon bonaparte (fate and 1 more) drawn by kiritachi)

2018-03-28T02:05:32-04:00

Based on the age of the cannon, who'd be a likely candidate?

@azurelorochi on post #3062046 (napoleon bonaparte (fate and 1 more) drawn by kiritachi)

2018-03-28T00:48:22-04:00

Shebadotfr said:

Because searching his name + archer in katakana in twitter got me more results than Henry Shrapnel or Matthew Perry like some in reddit are trying to push.

Because "popular theory = confirmed"? Nah. People are just most likely to jump on the name they recognize.

I'm not trying to push any other name before Napoleon, so yeah I guess you can say he's the "best guess" we have so far. I'm just not convinced at the evidences people give based on clothing(wrong color from Napoleon) and cannon(wrong era from Napoleon).

On those grounds there's as much chance this character is Napoleon as much as he is George Washington or Captain Cook.

@oracle135 on post #3062046 (napoleon bonaparte (fate and 1 more) drawn by kiritachi)

2018-03-28T00:44:17-04:00

Shebadotfr said:

and their empires disappeared after they were gone.

Gonna have to correct you on this last bit, but Bonny's empire crumbled before he's gone.

@Shebadotfr on post #3062046 (napoleon bonaparte (fate and 1 more) drawn by kiritachi)

2018-03-27T17:38:52-04:00

azurelorochi said:

Why Napoleon though? The cannon he hold(as stylized as it is) is clearly older than Napoleon's era, looks like something from the 15th century . I think he's a Servant related to one of these superguns(Turkic Bombard, Pumhart von Steyr, Dulle Griet, etc), though I'm not trying to going to pretend to know enough to pick out one for sure.

Not to mention in this age of bishonen-ing the hell out characters who's supposed to be bearded, macho, fat, etc(Charlemagne, Arjuna, Hohenheim, Fuuma, etc), I'd be hard pressed to see them actually machoing up and giving a beard to a historical figure who already was known to not be buff or have facial hair.

Because searching his name + archer in katakana in twitter got me more results than Henry Shrapnel or Matthew Perry like some in reddit are trying to push.

In the case he is Napoleon, he is likely meant to be played up as a foil to Iskandar: both are larger than life, almost conquered their part of the world, they were known as father to their men and their empires disappeared after they were gone.

@azurelorochi on post #3062046 (napoleon bonaparte (fate and 1 more) drawn by kiritachi)

2018-03-25T14:50:22-04:00

oracle135 said:

It happened to Alexander the Great, though. Maybe the artist took that as inspiration?

Note: I was just commenting on the face part, not the bombard.

Iskandar was designed way back in 2006 though, that's why other characters, both Masters and Servants can be older men who actually look like older men, or be Gilles with goldfish eyes.

Look at Servants and Masters in post-Apocrypha era and you'll find that a far less minority of both Masters and Servants are now allowed to look like they're over 30 years old and most that do look over 30s have this obvious "disposable" vibe to them that the creators very much know these characters aren't gonna have any fans(Spartacus, Gordes, Eric Bloodaxe).