[BUR] Granblue Fantasy character and race names

@DanbooruBot: The bulk update request #1812 (forum #150862)...

2018-11-27T19:02:19-05:00

The bulk update request #1812 (forum #150862) has been rejected by @DanbooruBot.

@DanbooruBot: This bulk update request has been rejected...

2018-11-27T19:02:19-05:00

This bulk update request has been rejected because it was not approved within 60 days.

@Kikimaru: create alias siete -> siete_(granblue_fantasy) ...

2018-09-27T20:46:07-04:00

create alias siete -> siete_(granblue_fantasy)

Link to request

EDIT: This bulk update request has been rejected because it was not approved within 60 days.

EDIT: The bulk update request #1812 (forum #150862) has been rejected by @DanbooruBot.

@DanbooruBot: The bulk update request #1806 (forum #150701)...

2018-09-25T01:36:27-04:00

The bulk update request #1806 (forum #150701) has been approved by @Hillside_Moose.

@Kikimaru: mass update ilsa -> ilsa_(granblue_fantasy) ...

2018-09-24T15:50:57-04:00

mass update ilsa -> ilsa_(granblue_fantasy)

Link to request

EDIT: The bulk update request #1806 (forum #150701) has been approved by @Hillside_Moose.

@DanbooruBot: The bulk update request #1692 (forum #147368)...

2018-05-29T23:40:51-04:00

The bulk update request #1692 (forum #147368) has been approved by @Hillside_Moose.

@kozaki.saya: create alias the_order_grande ->...

2018-05-28T13:38:49-04:00

create alias the_order_grande -> zooey_(granblue_fantasy)
create alias societte_(granblue_fantasy) -> socie_(granblue_fantasy)
create alias makira_(granblue_fantasy) -> mahira_(granblue_fantasy)
mass update charlotta_(granblue_fantasy) -> charlotta_fenia
mass update charlotta_fenia_(granblue_fantasy) -> charlotta_fenia

Link to request

Part 2 of alias fixes, and also updating Charlotta to the suggested name tag.

EDIT: The bulk update request #1692 (forum #147368) has been approved by @Hillside_Moose.

@DanbooruBot: The bulk update request #1543 (forum #144669)...

2018-05-27T23:12:04-04:00

The bulk update request #1543 (forum #144669) has been approved by @Hillside_Moose.

@DanbooruBot: This bulk update request is pending automatic...

2018-05-27T00:03:40-04:00

This bulk update request is pending automatic rejection in 5 days.

@kozaki.saya: I totally missed that on the first pass, shall...

2018-04-03T12:52:47-04:00

I totally missed that on the first pass, shall I throw it in on the next one with the others ? Using her full name makes sense.

@Laethiel: This might as well go in here: we currently...

2018-04-03T02:25:03-04:00

This might as well go in here: we currently have two character tags for the same person, charlotta_(granblue_fantasy) and charlotta_fenia_(granblue_fantasy). Similar to katalina_aryze, the actual tag should probably just be charlotta_fenia; it's sufficiently unique, I don't think we're ever going to need the qualifier. The other tags can probably just be updated to the new one rather than aliased; we don't have any other tags starting with charlotta.

@kozaki.saya: remove alias zooey_(granblue_fantasy) ->...

2018-04-01T13:57:09-04:00

remove alias zooey_(granblue_fantasy) -> the_order_grande
remove alias socie_(granblue_fantasy) -> societte_(granblue_fantasy)
remove alias mahira_(granblue_fantasy) -> makira_(granblue_fantasy)

Link to request

Unaliasing the mentioned tags to prepare to reverse alias order.

EDIT: This bulk update request is pending automatic rejection in 5 days.

EDIT: The bulk update request #1543 (forum #144669) has been approved by @Hillside_Moose.

@Unbreakable: > kozaki.saya said: > > I'm getting a "Error:...

2018-04-01T13:08:04-04:00

kozaki.saya said:

I'm getting a "Error: Error: A tag alias for zooey_(granblue_fantasy) already exists (create alias the_order_grande -> zooey_(granblue_fantasy))" when I'm trying to put together the BUR, is there a specific procedure for reversing alias orders?

The ones I'm trying to do are:
alias the_order_grande -> zooey_(granblue_fantasy)
alias societte_(granblue_fantasy) -> socie_(granblue_fantasy)
alias makira_(granblue_fantasy) -> mahira_(granblue_fantasy)

You must unalias the old alias first and then make a seperate request after that for the other way around.

@kozaki.saya: I'm getting a "Error: Error: A tag alias for...

2018-04-01T13:04:07-04:00

I'm getting a "Error: Error: A tag alias for zooey_(granblue_fantasy) already exists (create alias the_order_grande -> zooey_(granblue_fantasy))" when I'm trying to put together the BUR, is there a specific procedure for reversing alias orders?

The ones I'm trying to do are:

alias the_order_grande -> zooey_(granblue_fantasy)
alias societte_(granblue_fantasy) -> socie_(granblue_fantasy)
alias makira_(granblue_fantasy) -> mahira_(granblue_fantasy)

@Kerasu: > kozaki.saya said: > > In summary, my current...

2018-03-30T21:32:38-04:00

kozaki.saya said:

In summary, my current stance is that I think it's reasonable to:

adjust Societte

I don't mind changing Grande if there are strong feelings about it, since it's kinda a gray area to start with, at best

Mahira can be changed for consistency if people want (I just wanted to make sure people were aware that there were some unique differences that Andira/Anila/Vajra did not have in their names that Mahira does.)

Muon (and the other "vastly different" ones) should be kept JP-primary, and

I do not think Thalatha should be changed.

I'm not heavily invested enough into any of these (besides maaaybe Thalatha, but even then...) that I'd argue much more if Danbooru as a whole wants one or another, and I'll be happy to slap up a request to have these changed if this covers what you mentioned.

Sounds fair to me.

@kozaki.saya: Re: Societte, my bad, thought you meant JP...

2018-03-30T02:28:58-04:00

Re: Societte, my bad, thought you meant JP syllables vs. EN. I think my judgement on this is a bit clouded because Socie looks really silly and doesn't match the JP (Soshie, of course). I'm sort of wondering where it came from since it wasn't in the artbooks either, IIRC (I think her first appearance in the archives was in volume 2, where it was already "Societte"...) I know that people have been using that spelling (Socie) for a *very* long time, though...

Re: Mahira

It's not the "hi"/"ki" part that bothers me (that one's due to fuzziness of pronunciation with Japanese's relatively limited sounds available, and shows up on some other foreign names/words consistently in Japanese stuff in general), it's the "Me"/"Mi"/"Ma" difference that stands out weirdly --- the conventional JP for Mihira is "Mekira". They got the "conventional JP version" of all the other names exactly right (Anchira/Anira/etc), but not Mahira's for some reason.

Kerasu said:

Bottom line is, three out of four (so far) Divine Generals already have tags matching their Sanskrit spellings

I basically agree with you on that overall, but the fact that they got the JP "right" for 3 out of 4 of them makes the one that is "wrong" stand out more. I can easily believe they have bad translations (which is basically a fact for the early EN stuff, like in the Fate episodes where Quatre's name is written as uh, "Cattle"...), but I'm more likely to think that differing JP is more intentional.

However, as mentioned, I'm okay with it either way --- your argument for it is a sound one, so I think it is sensible to switch to that if people want it.

EDIT: In summary, my current stance is that I think it's reasonable to:

adjust Societte
I don't mind changing Grande if there are strong feelings about it, since it's kinda a gray area to start with, at best
Mahira can be changed for consistency if people want (I just wanted to make sure people were aware that there were some unique differences that Andira/Anila/Vajra did not have in their names that Mahira does.)
Muon (and the other "vastly different" ones) should be kept JP-primary, and
I do not think Thalatha should be changed.

I'm not heavily invested enough into any of these (besides maaaybe Thalatha, but even then...) that I'd argue much more if Danbooru as a whole wants one or another, and I'll be happy to slap up a request to have these changed if this covers what you mentioned.

@Kerasu: > kozaki.saya said: > > Zooey's can be changed...

2018-03-29T21:09:18-04:00

kozaki.saya said:

Zooey's can be changed if you really feel strongly about it. The thing is that The Order Grande/Grand Order is a (sorta) proper name for her as a primal, and Zooey is definitely not her actual name, though everyone refers to her as it for expediency for the obvious reason (as per her fate episode). I can see the argument both ways, so personally, anything is fine.

Honestly I wish there was bit more to go on here. Looking at various tags for Shingeki no Bahamut stuff, I see a mix of title-included (dark_angel_olivia) and name-only (forte_(shingeki_no_bahamut)). The Order Grande still seems to me like a title, but there isn't compelling evidence either way so I'll let whoever make a call.

Back in some really old GBF EN forum gatherings, we used Thalatha because that's more of the convention for how the "number" is written, to line up with the other Juutenshu. The general suspicion was that "Thalath" is one of Cygame's mistakes in early archives (similar to some of the other names that were changed later on). If we could rope an actual speaker of the language to chip in, that'd help, but I do not speak the language myself, so my knowledge is more or less what people dug up and told us at the time.

I can sort of get behind this. Since there was summer artwork of her, I would expect an update in the next volume.

They have the same number of syllables? So-shee-eh vs. So-shee-et? But if people want to change it then that's fine, too.

"Societte" would be more like ソシエット as opposed to ソシエ.

Mahira as well, the issue with that one being that Anira->Anila and Anchira->Andira are already accepted versions of the name in JP, but Makira is not normally a proper kana-ization of Meikira->Mihira. However, if people want Mahira as the standard, I don't particularly mind that. It's just that this discrepancy is what pushed me to argue for that particular point.

If it helps, you can think of the "hi" to "ki" transformation as a double translation from Sanskrit to Chinese and then to Japanese.

Bottom line is, three out of four (so far) Divine Generals already have tags matching their Sanskrit spellings, so I think Mahira is close enough that it wouldn't spell the end of Danbooru if she did as well, and in fact would seem more correct next to the rest of her cycle. Characters like Vampy, Muon, or Socie don't have a pattern to follow, so it matters less.

There isn't much more for me to elaborate on and I've already belabored the point, so having presented my case thoroughly I'll simply let someone make a call.

@kozaki.saya: Zooey's can be changed if you really feel...

2018-03-29T04:04:23-04:00

Zooey's can be changed if you really feel strongly about it. The thing is that The Order Grande/Grand Order is a (sorta) proper name for her as a primal, and Zooey is definitely not her actual name, though everyone refers to her as it for expediency for the obvious reason (as per her fate episode). I can see the argument both ways, so personally, anything is fine.

Back in some really old GBF EN forum gatherings, we used Thalatha because that's more of the convention for how the "number" is written, to line up with the other Juutenshu. The general suspicion was that "Thalath" is one of Cygame's mistakes in early archives (similar to some of the other names that were changed later on). If we could rope an actual speaker of the language to chip in, that'd help, but I do not speak the language myself, so my knowledge is more or less what people dug up and told us at the time.

I'd say Societte isn't a matter of simple spelling, it's got a whole extra syllable.

They have the same number of syllables? So-shee-eh vs. So-shee-et? But if people want to change it then that's fine, too.

Mahira as well, the issue with that one being that Anira->Anila and Anchira->Andira are already accepted versions of the name in JP, but Makira is not normally a proper kana-ization of Meikira->Mihira. However, if people want Mahira as the standard, I don't particularly mind that. It's just that this discrepancy is what pushed me to argue for that particular point.

@Kerasu: > Laethiel said: > Why not? Preferring Sarasa...

2018-03-28T23:07:26-04:00

Laethiel said:
Why not? Preferring Sarasa over Thalatha/Thalath would be the same as preferring Tsuvai over Zwei. Sure, Zwei happens to be a better known word among English speakers, but both are Japanese renderings of foreign words. And even if the next Graphic Archive says her name is "サラーサ" and "Threo", that would just be similar to the case with Vampy.

Sorry, I meant that in the sense that I don't personally like either one, but based on established precedent it makes sense to use one of the two.

But Societte should similarly be Socie, yes.

@Laethiel: > Kerasu said: > > why prefer Societte over...

2018-03-28T22:46:45-04:00

Kerasu said:

why prefer Societte over Socie? I'd say Societte isn't a matter of simple spelling, it's got a whole extra syllable. I do see there was already some discussion over that particular case though, so I won't beat on it.

I still do think Socie should be the main tag, but since I seemed to be the only one arguing for it, I didn't want to keep holding up the entire BUR.

Kerasu said:

As for whether Thalath or Thalatha is correct, I honestly don't like either one

Why not? Preferring Sarasa over Thalatha/Thalath would be the same as preferring Tsuvai over Zwei. Sure, Zwei happens to be a better known word among English speakers, but both are Japanese renderings of foreign words. And even if the next Graphic Archive says her name is "サラーサ" and "Threo", that would just be similar to the case with Vampy.