Comments on post #1675085

@DX5536 on post #1675085 (hakurei reimu and shimakaze (touhou and 1 more) drawn by shiori_(moechin))

2015-12-20T05:20:02-05:00

dimsun said:

I'm gonna favorite this post largely because of the intelligent conversation I have read.

Commenting on the post: In Reimu's defense, Shimakaze does... kinda... dress like a slut...

Make it everyone from Fetish Collection

@rubini on post #1675085 (hakurei reimu and shimakaze (touhou and 1 more) drawn by shiori_(moechin))

2015-07-06T18:13:19-04:00

GigaNinjaMaster said:

So, how long do you think Kantai Collection will last?

Well in the last time, I see various friends leave kancolle, because its gameplay is random. Construction from girls, sorties, battle, etc. I think that if not they do something, kancolle you lose fame

@GigaNinjaMaster on post #1675085 (hakurei reimu and shimakaze (touhou and 1 more) drawn by shiori_(moechin))

2014-08-16T18:22:56-04:00

Hod said:

I cannot agree with this. One of the main draws of Kantai Collection is that the game is NOT pay-to-win. They even explicitly warn you not to splurge on real money for things like Large Ship Construction, and you shouldn't have to, either.

It was supposed to be pandering to IJN otaku with cute girls on the side. Things just ended up going the opposite way.

Nah, I can't foresee either of them taking over any of those 3 franchises. They're more like the smaller states that the big 3 swallowed to give us the eventual map of the 3 kingdoms that we all know.

The official word is that they are aliens. So they are just generic mooks, aliens, nothing more. In any case the creator has confirmed that he's going to add foreign ships, including American and British, as well.

I can't say much as to why all those atrocities weren't mentioned in the game (Rape of Nanking and the atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki weren't done by ships btw), but I don't agree with your last sentence; in fact I find that what KanColle is doing reduces tensions between nations instead, reducing the chances of history repeating itself.

Xenoglossia is completely off when it comes to representing Idolmaster in general. If I'm not wrong, it wasn't that popular with Idolmaster fans, too.

You are giving no credit whatsoever to the creators of official works and fanworks alike. Again, catering to IJN otaku means that they had to do research on the ships, to the extent that even the most trivial details are reflected in some part of the girl: her equipment, accessories, lines, etc. Check the second point of the following article:

http://wrttn.in/0c540b

The third point will also tell you why Kantai Collection doesn't just showcase about World War II the way you want it to.

And as others said, it's better off having no canon story. The story is best left to other official media like manga spinoffs, the upcoming anime, etc, as well as fanworks. This is also a major appeal to fans, because they can leave things up to their imaginations.

And finally, the game is popular in China. Popular enough to have its own KanColle convention. And a KanColle ripoff. The game doesn't need to do anything to become a tool of peace; let things go their natural course. Forcing things can have an opposite effect.

It was first and foremost for IJN ships, and IJN ships only. The developers never expected it to become this popular. The decision to add foreign ships was only made after its popularity exploded.

So it's just following what other Japanese franchises do. Focus on the local market before expanding. In fact, it was originally supposed to cater only to the local market.

And before you can expand to other markets, you have to consider three things.

First, you have to intend to become big first, otherwise it's just a waste of time, effort and money. Kantai Collection only intended to have 20k players, and hardly any secondaries. When something you don't intend to become big ends up being so, you need time to think your next step, because all your future plans just got screwed up.

Next, you have to be able to cater to local demand before you can talk about catering to worldwide demand. Those who want to play the game at all have to go through a lottery system to get slots, because the servers won't be able to accept a load beyond a certain amount. They have been adding new servers and expanding existing ones, but all the slots still end up being taken up every single day. If you can't even satisfy local demand, don't talk about trying to satisfy demand in other markets.

Finally, even if Kadokawa is willing to expand, DMM isn't. DMM is a site hosting mainly R-18 games with KanColle being one of the few exceptions. It wouldn't sit well with moral guardians in other countries, that's for sure. This game was also a collaboration between these two companies for DMM to experiment hosting non-R-18 games, and I doubt that'd change regardless of its popularity.

You're mistaken as to where KanColle's niche is. The lack of a story or background is part of what's mainly driving the franchise's popularity now, allowing the story to be left up to the interpretations of the fans. Some details have been confirmed by the developers, like that only the equipment is scrapped or modernised and the girls just back to civilian lives afterwards. However, it still hasn't stopped people from viewing things like Isuzu farming as otherwise.

Regarding the playing on phones, the developers have explicitly discouraged players from doing so, asking them to stick to PCs instead. And if they run out of World War II ships (which is going to take quite some time), simple. Just start using ships whose constructions were halted for any reason. Or use ships from a different era, like World War I. Even the modern era is fine.

You're right about the character depth, though. I can't say for sure about the direction they're taking with regards to this, but it seems like the developers are just taking from general fanon consensus for that. As for the music, I don't know about you, but personally I wish that they can allow us to choose the BGM we want instead.

So, how long do you think Kantai Collection will last?

@ap1111 on post #1675085 (hakurei reimu and shimakaze (touhou and 1 more) drawn by shiori_(moechin))

2014-07-06T21:32:01-04:00

Lack of background and story would probably be its downfall eventually, fanwork can only do a bit with a blank slate and Kantai lack of background doesn't seem to give anywhere to build up its story from. That's probably going to change with the airing of the anime, which probably is just going to be moe or some other cute thing. I can see that in the future of Kantai becoming something similar to ldolmaster. Kantai really need to give something to build up a decent story from, which is something it sadly doesn't have right now.

@Hod on post #1675085 (hakurei reimu and shimakaze (touhou and 1 more) drawn by shiori_(moechin))

2014-07-05T13:25:33-04:00

Hoobajoob said:

One is a commerical freemium game made by a team of people for the sake of making money.

I cannot agree with this. One of the main draws of Kantai Collection is that the game is NOT pay-to-win. They even explicitly warn you not to splurge on real money for things like Large Ship Construction, and you shouldn't have to, either.

UnlimitedBaconWorks said:

And I think people are claiming it's greedy because it's very increasingly targeted at the otaku demographic. While there's way worse, few people like actively wondering if they're being pandered to.

It was supposed to be pandering to IJN otaku with cute girls on the side. Things just ended up going the opposite way.

Tetsamaru said:

I would say Vocaloid and maybe perhaps Fate stay night.

Type-kun said:

More like general Type-moon fandom, which still happens to be quite large despite Nasu being a king of Slowpokes.

Nah, I can't foresee either of them taking over any of those 3 franchises. They're more like the smaller states that the big 3 swallowed to give us the eventual map of the 3 kingdoms that we all know.

GigaNinjaMaster said:

I think that part of the reason for the Abyssal Girls' existence is that it would have been much harder to make dozens of unique designs to represent the entire U.S. Navy than it would have been to make a handful of generic mooks. However, after the introduction of the Germans, I'm not so sure anymore.

I don't care how popular the Abyssal Girls are; the thing that disturbs me the most about Kantai Collection is how it portrays World War II as harmless (in a way, this makes the Abyssal Girls' popularity even more disturbing). For a game that goes to such depth in the technicalities (almost every aspect of the character designs reflects the real-world ships), it's astounding how it doesn't acknowledge the gravity of the conflict at all. What about Pearl Harbor? What about the Rape of Nanking? As for the Americans, what about Hiroshima and Nagasaki? What about the keeping of Japanese soldiers' body parts as trophies? Even the campiest of World War II-related media tends to recognize at least some of these offenses; Kantai Collection reduces the greatest conflict in human history into an otaku's wet dream. Normally I wouldn't mind something like Kantai Collection so much, but when the work in question is so widespread and tensions in the East are so high, such a work concerns me. Romanticizing history's tragedies makes it easier for them to repeat.

The official word is that they are aliens. So they are just generic mooks, aliens, nothing more. In any case the creator has confirmed that he's going to add foreign ships, including American and British, as well.

I can't say much as to why all those atrocities weren't mentioned in the game (Rape of Nanking and the atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki weren't done by ships btw), but I don't agree with your last sentence; in fact I find that what KanColle is doing reduces tensions between nations instead, reducing the chances of history repeating itself.

Steak said:

I'm surprised it's still a thing. My first experience with it was the mecha anime from years ago. The girls were all psychos...

Xenoglossia is completely off when it comes to representing Idolmaster in general. If I'm not wrong, it wasn't that popular with Idolmaster fans, too.

D_The_Man said:

I do agree with this game not being 100% acceptable in the west, seeing that most parts of the world, are still suffering from the tragedies World War II. Hell, even if they decide to put U.S. Naval ships in the game, it still would be prone to stereotypes, and antagonistic tensions. This game seems to be riding the whole moe girl craze, and nothing but. If this game was smart(which i'm assuming it isn't, because again, this is nothing more than otaku drool bait), it would have showcased World War II, and all of the tragedies that occured in it, as well as become a striking history lesson for people of all nationalites. Had the developers actually did thier homework, this could have been one of the most historically accurate, and the most intelectually satisfying game on world war II. This is just like the latest Studio Ghibli film, "The Wind Rises". The movie got a lot of contreversy, for it's portayal of the construction of Japanese war ships, and apperently it didn't sit well with most western viewers, especially those who had family members, who served in World War II.

This game really doesn't offer much in actually educating people about World War II, and it sure as hell doesn't expose the revisionist bullshit, that the Japanese government has been trying to do since the 1960's. This game could have also been a bridge of peace between the Chineese, and Japanese citizens, especially the young citizens, and could have been a bridge of understanding one another. This game could have done so much more, but instead, it's just another generic moe-centric game, with little, to no value. Not to hate on the game or anything, but i found it extremly dissapointing, that this game didn't push the boundaries, and actually become a tool for peace, and understanding.

You are giving no credit whatsoever to the creators of official works and fanworks alike. Again, catering to IJN otaku means that they had to do research on the ships, to the extent that even the most trivial details are reflected in some part of the girl: her equipment, accessories, lines, etc. Check the second point of the following article:

http://wrttn.in/0c540b

The third point will also tell you why Kantai Collection doesn't just showcase about World War II the way you want it to.

And as others said, it's better off having no canon story. The story is best left to other official media like manga spinoffs, the upcoming anime, etc, as well as fanworks. This is also a major appeal to fans, because they can leave things up to their imaginations.

And finally, the game is popular in China. Popular enough to have its own KanColle convention. And a KanColle ripoff. The game doesn't need to do anything to become a tool of peace; let things go their natural course. Forcing things can have an opposite effect.

D_The_Man said:

If it's about the ships, at least have the decency to include naval ships from around the world, especially America. Also, at least put some trivia in the game.

It was first and foremost for IJN ships, and IJN ships only. The developers never expected it to become this popular. The decision to add foreign ships was only made after its popularity exploded.

D_The_Man said:

Have you seen Gaijin Goombah's video, about how Japanese devs should open up to foreign markets? I 100% agree with him. They have all these interesting games, that would recive a huge profit from foriegn markets. I've actually talked to a couple of friends about this issue, and they say that many people in Japan are actually shocked that westerners, especially Americans, even know about Nintendo, or thier games. That type of close minded thinking cannot exist anymore, especially with a country who is #1 in the world economy, and wants to stay that way. They don't even talk to us, or even find out what we, as consumers like, and instead takes a distant apporach, and desing games in what they think that we will like. Final Fantasy XIII,DmC, Resident Evil 6,Mindjack, and Shadow The Hedgehog were a good examples of this. They all think that we like guns, and ultra violence, without understanding the context behing those things, and understanding that people in the west have different tases in games. I'm sure a game like Kantai Collection would't do so well over here, but it can't hurt to try.

Last note, I was very estatic hear that Zun came to America this year, because it shows that he does have an interest in the international audience, and it might inspire him to release games over here on Steam someday. This is what i want to see more japanese devs do, because it's detrimental to the entire industry to flat-out ingnore an huge chunck of the gaming market, which is the international market. Here's a link to the video, if anyone is interested: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kG5gkSl_IjA

So it's just following what other Japanese franchises do. Focus on the local market before expanding. In fact, it was originally supposed to cater only to the local market.

And before you can expand to other markets, you have to consider three things.

First, you have to intend to become big first, otherwise it's just a waste of time, effort and money. Kantai Collection only intended to have 20k players, and hardly any secondaries. When something you don't intend to become big ends up being so, you need time to think your next step, because all your future plans just got screwed up.

Next, you have to be able to cater to local demand before you can talk about catering to worldwide demand. Those who want to play the game at all have to go through a lottery system to get slots, because the servers won't be able to accept a load beyond a certain amount. They have been adding new servers and expanding existing ones, but all the slots still end up being taken up every single day. If you can't even satisfy local demand, don't talk about trying to satisfy demand in other markets.

Finally, even if Kadokawa is willing to expand, DMM isn't. DMM is a site hosting mainly R-18 games with KanColle being one of the few exceptions. It wouldn't sit well with moral guardians in other countries, that's for sure. This game was also a collaboration between these two companies for DMM to experiment hosting non-R-18 games, and I doubt that'd change regardless of its popularity.

Estavali said:

If one is to compare the two, I would say that Touhou has certain strengths that Kancolle lacks and desperately needs if it is to maintain its popularity for long. Touhou has proper stories, good music, developed characters and a more-or-less defined and consistent worldview, all which contributes to its longevity, popularity and its ability to continue growing into the future. Kancolle's chief advantage as I see it is its accessibility (to the Japanese audience at least); as a browser game, it can be played on the move from the phone, while Touhou's games are AFAIK confined to PCs. However I feel that there is a need, a crucial need I would say, to pump real substance into Kancolle: a real story, a detailed and consistent background (preferably one that stays as far as it can from retcons) as well as character depth (pun intended), at least. The Get'em'All mode can stay fresh for only so long; sooner or later, it will run out of ships and ways to distinguish one from another. The fact that Kancolle is personifying WWII ships means that, unlike Touhou, Pokemon and IdolMas, it can't introduce original Kanmusu without violating its basic premises.

Also, Kancolle really needs to work on its music. It would be good if each world has its own unique theme, just like each Touhou character has her own theme, to give each zone its own feel, to set one apart from the other. Just like the Kanmusu, the stages should be distinct from each other, so that players won't get the feeling of being stuck into an monotonous cycle where everything looks the same. Besides, it would provide fan-artists more material to work with =3

You're mistaken as to where KanColle's niche is. The lack of a story or background is part of what's mainly driving the franchise's popularity now, allowing the story to be left up to the interpretations of the fans. Some details have been confirmed by the developers, like that only the equipment is scrapped or modernised and the girls just back to civilian lives afterwards. However, it still hasn't stopped people from viewing things like Isuzu farming as otherwise.

Regarding the playing on phones, the developers have explicitly discouraged players from doing so, asking them to stick to PCs instead. And if they run out of World War II ships (which is going to take quite some time), simple. Just start using ships whose constructions were halted for any reason. Or use ships from a different era, like World War I. Even the modern era is fine.

You're right about the character depth, though. I can't say for sure about the direction they're taking with regards to this, but it seems like the developers are just taking from general fanon consensus for that. As for the music, I don't know about you, but personally I wish that they can allow us to choose the BGM we want instead.

@GigaNinjaMaster on post #1675085 (hakurei reimu and shimakaze (touhou and 1 more) drawn by shiori_(moechin))

2014-06-18T00:38:35-04:00

Estavali said:

It also doesn't help that most of these ships were sunk by the Americans during the war. Considering that the official 4koma has shown the Kanmusu with vivid memories of their past (especially when it comes to the details of their first deaths), fighting along side the American would probably end up with a lot of tension and bad blood within ranks. If Kancolle ever gets a proper story, it's quite possible for this new Combined Fleet to get a number of "friendly fire" and end up fighting each other instead of the Abyssmal Fleet.

--------------------------

Personally I think the fear of Kancolle eclipsing Touhou is at the moment over-exaggerated. Would Touhou, with a huge fanbase built over almost twenty years, collapse overnight just because of an upstart that just passed its first anniversary? I don't think so. IF it is to fall so very easily, even with the solid foundation it has, then that would just mean that this is all there is to Touhou and its so-called fans are nothing more than a fickle mob. I doubt this is true.

If one is to compare the two, I would say that Touhou has certain strengths that Kancolle lacks and desperately needs if it is to maintain its popularity for long. Touhou has proper stories, good music, developed characters and a more-or-less defined and consistent worldview, all which contributes to its longevity, popularity and its ability to continue growing into the future. Kancolle's chief advantage as I see it is its accessibility (to the Japanese audience at least); as a browser game, it can be played on the move from the phone, while Touhou's games are AFAIK confined to PCs. However I feel that there is a need, a crucial need I would say, to pump real substance into Kancolle: a real story, a detailed and consistent background (preferably one that stays as far as it can from retcons) as well as character depth (pun intended), at least. The Get'em'All mode can stay fresh for only so long; sooner or later, it will run out of ships and ways to distinguish one from another. The fact that Kancolle is personifying WWII ships means that, unlike Touhou, Pokemon and IdolMas, it can't introduce original Kanmusu without violating its basic premises.

Also, Kancolle really needs to work on its music. It would be good if each world has its own unique theme, just like each Touhou character has her own theme, to give each zone its own feel, to set one apart from the other. Just like the Kanmusu, the stages should be distinct from each other, so that players won't get the feeling of being stuck into an monotonous cycle where everything looks the same. Besides, it would provide fan-artists more material to work with =3

I think that Kantai Collection suffers from an inherent flaw that prevents it from being more serious: its source of material is much darker and meaningful than it could ever hope to be.

@GigaNinjaMaster on post #1675085 (hakurei reimu and shimakaze (touhou and 1 more) drawn by shiori_(moechin))

2014-06-17T02:52:03-04:00

Tetsamaru said:

You must HATE the Dynasty warriors games then. Ashame because I actually like them.

I don't have much of an opinion of Dynasty Warriors other than I like the hammy voice acting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XF-MDuXXiSI

@dimsun on post #1675085 (hakurei reimu and shimakaze (touhou and 1 more) drawn by shiori_(moechin))

2014-06-13T22:22:18-04:00

I'm gonna favorite this post largely because of the intelligent conversation I have read.

Commenting on the post: In Reimu's defense, Shimakaze does... kinda... dress like a slut...

@DuwangAnon on post #1675085 (hakurei reimu and shimakaze (touhou and 1 more) drawn by shiori_(moechin))

2014-05-20T00:23:46-04:00

So wait, what was that about a war?

Because I think one just started in the comment section OF THIS VERY PIC.

@Estavali on post #1675085 (hakurei reimu and shimakaze (touhou and 1 more) drawn by shiori_(moechin))

2014-05-19T16:42:45-04:00

Seika said:

If it's targetted to the American. Since it's targetted to the Japanese, local ships first.
Don't see why the Japanese should also have American as heroes in their own product.

It also doesn't help that most of these ships were sunk by the Americans during the war. Considering that the official 4koma has shown the Kanmusu with vivid memories of their past (especially when it comes to the details of their first deaths), fighting along side the American would probably end up with a lot of tension and bad blood within ranks. If Kancolle ever gets a proper story, it's quite possible for this new Combined Fleet to get a number of "friendly fire" and end up fighting each other instead of the Abyssmal Fleet.

--------------------------

Personally I think the fear of Kancolle eclipsing Touhou is at the moment over-exaggerated. Would Touhou, with a huge fanbase built over almost twenty years, collapse overnight just because of an upstart that just passed its first anniversary? I don't think so. IF it is to fall so very easily, even with the solid foundation it has, then that would just mean that this is all there is to Touhou and its so-called fans are nothing more than a fickle mob. I doubt this is true.

If one is to compare the two, I would say that Touhou has certain strengths that Kancolle lacks and desperately needs if it is to maintain its popularity for long. Touhou has proper stories, good music, developed characters and a more-or-less defined and consistent worldview, all which contributes to its longevity, popularity and its ability to continue growing into the future. Kancolle's chief advantage as I see it is its accessibility (to the Japanese audience at least); as a browser game, it can be played on the move from the phone, while Touhou's games are AFAIK confined to PCs. However I feel that there is a need, a crucial need I would say, to pump real substance into Kancolle: a real story, a detailed and consistent background (preferably one that stays as far as it can from retcons) as well as character depth (pun intended), at least. The Get'em'All mode can stay fresh for only so long; sooner or later, it will run out of ships and ways to distinguish one from another. The fact that Kancolle is personifying WWII ships means that, unlike Touhou, Pokemon and IdolMas, it can't introduce original Kanmusu without violating its basic premises.

Also, Kancolle really needs to work on its music. It would be good if each world has its own unique theme, just like each Touhou character has her own theme, to give each zone its own feel, to set one apart from the other. Just like the Kanmusu, the stages should be distinct from each other, so that players won't get the feeling of being stuck into an monotonous cycle where everything looks the same. Besides, it would provide fan-artists more material to work with =3

@D_The_Man on post #1675085 (hakurei reimu and shimakaze (touhou and 1 more) drawn by shiori_(moechin))

2014-05-06T23:21:35-04:00

Seika said:

If it's targetted to the American. Since it's targetted to the Japanese, local ships first.
Don't see why the Japanese should also have American as heroes in their own product.

In this first year, they've only introduced 3 Germany ships. German which is a lot more popular among WW2 military otaku than America (preceding issues such as Germany being their ally in WW2). If they're going to be introducing American ships, it won't be any time soon.

Another thing. The companies in otaku industries are not thinking much outside local market. They traditionally leave that to local partners who are interested in licensing their products. There's worries about cultural gap, and with foreign not being the main focus, they'd rather have their local partners to deal with it while they concentrate on local market (with licensing money as extra).

But the relationship is as licensor or reseller. Don't think that the foreign partner will have much to say. Probably specialized local contents and events for that specific market, but the core development will always be for Japan first.
Which is actually not so different with American company who have America first approach because they don't have resources to provide supply chain or data gathering for other countries, in addition to legal stuffs.

The game already have trivias. But I'm going to take a guess that the trivias are going to be deemed "too shallow".

And for the "make a difference".
Compare with this case: stakeholder asked you to develop a religious game with message that's true-to-scriptures, no going overboard.
How long would the game fly with players constantly feeling they're being preached at or constantly antagonized ? They're just here to have fun, and this is not even one of those novel-like game where plot is the most important thing.

Like Touhou, a good chunk of the fans are not experiencing the story from the real game. They're enjoying great art and fun stories of derivative works made by fan artists.
Outside Japan, with the regional lock and language barrier, this is even more true.

Have you seen Gaijin Goombah's video, about how Japanese devs should open up to foreign markets? I 100% agree with him. They have all these interesting games, that would recive a huge profit from foriegn markets. I've actually talked to a couple of friends about this issue, and they say that many people in Japan are actually shocked that westerners, especially Americans, even know about Nintendo, or thier games. That type of close minded thinking cannot exist anymore, especially with a country who is #1 in the world economy, and wants to stay that way. They don't even talk to us, or even find out what we, as consumers like, and instead takes a distant apporach, and desing games in what they think that we will like. Final Fantasy XIII,DmC, Resident Evil 6,Mindjack, and Shadow The Hedgehog were a good examples of this. They all think that we like guns, and ultra violence, without understanding the context behing those things, and understanding that people in the west have different tases in games. I'm sure a game like Kantai Collection would't do so well over here, but it can't hurt to try.

Last note, I was very estatic hear that Zun came to America this year, because it shows that he does have an interest in the international audience, and it might inspire him to release games over here on Steam someday. This is what i want to see more japanese devs do, because it's detrimental to the entire industry to flat-out ingnore an huge chunck of the gaming market, which is the international market. Here's a link to the video, if anyone is interested: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kG5gkSl_IjA

@Seika on post #1675085 (hakurei reimu and shimakaze (touhou and 1 more) drawn by shiori_(moechin))

2014-05-06T10:09:23-04:00

If it's targetted to the American. Since it's targetted to the Japanese, local ships first.
Don't see why the Japanese should also have American as heroes in their own product.

In this first year, they've only introduced 3 Germany ships. German which is a lot more popular among WW2 military otaku than America (preceding issues such as Germany being their ally in WW2). If they're going to be introducing American ships, it won't be any time soon.

Another thing. The companies in otaku industries are not thinking much outside local market. They traditionally leave that to local partners who are interested in licensing their products. There's worries about cultural gap, and with foreign not being the main focus, they'd rather have their local partners to deal with it while they concentrate on local market (with licensing money as extra).

But the relationship is as licensor or reseller. Don't think that the foreign partner will have much to say. Probably specialized local contents and events for that specific market, but the core development will always be for Japan first.
Which is actually not so different with American company who have America first approach because they don't have resources to provide supply chain or data gathering for other countries, in addition to legal stuffs.

The game already have trivias. But I'm going to take a guess that the trivias are going to be deemed "too shallow".

And for the "make a difference".
Compare with this case: stakeholder asked you to develop a religious game with message that's true-to-scriptures, no going overboard.
How long would the game fly with players constantly feeling they're being preached at or constantly antagonized ? They're just here to have fun, and this is not even one of those novel-like game where plot is the most important thing.

Like Touhou, a good chunk of the fans are not experiencing the story from the real game. They're enjoying great art and fun stories of derivative works made by fan artists.
Outside Japan, with the regional lock and language barrier, this is even more true.

@D_The_Man on post #1675085 (hakurei reimu and shimakaze (touhou and 1 more) drawn by shiori_(moechin))

2014-05-06T09:46:19-04:00

Lunatic6 said:

What do you expect, this game isn't made to provoke other people.

Also, I think it will not be quite popular to the western countries especially the European countries because there are only limited naval engagements in the European Theater, most of the decisive naval battles were fought between the USN and the IJN in the Pacific.

The only countries I know who still haven't move on about Japan are China and Korea (I know why, I just decided not to write about it), everyone else pretty much moved on already.

And like Steak said, this game in not about reenacting World War 2, it's all about the World War 2 Ships.

If it's about the ships, at least have the decency to include naval ships from around the world, especially America. Also, at least put some trivia in the game.

One last thing, not trying to stir-up the pot, or anything, but can we please get some original American ship girls of color? America is a country that's made up of different types of people, of all races you know.

@Lunatic6 on post #1675085 (hakurei reimu and shimakaze (touhou and 1 more) drawn by shiori_(moechin))

2014-05-06T03:41:49-04:00

D_The_Man said:

... that this game didn't push the boundaries, and actually become a tool for peace, and understanding.

What do you expect, this game isn't made to provoke other people.

Also, I think it will not be quite popular to the western countries especially the European countries because there are only limited naval engagements in the European Theater, most of the decisive naval battles were fought between the USN and the IJN in the Pacific.

The only countries I know who still haven't move on about Japan are China and Korea (I know why, I just decided not to write about it), everyone else pretty much moved on already.

And like Steak said, this game in not about reenacting World War 2, it's all about the World War 2 Ships.

@D_The_Man on post #1675085 (hakurei reimu and shimakaze (touhou and 1 more) drawn by shiori_(moechin))

2014-05-05T22:21:35-04:00

GigaNinjaMaster said:

I think that part of the reason for the Abyssal Girls' existence is that it would have been much harder to make dozens of unique designs to represent the entire U.S. Navy than it would have been to make a handful of generic mooks. However, after the introduction of the Germans, I'm not so sure anymore.

I don't care how popular the Abyssal Girls are; the thing that disturbs me the most about Kantai Collection is how it portrays World War II as harmless (in a way, this makes the Abyssal Girls' popularity even more disturbing). For a game that goes to such depth in the technicalities (almost every aspect of the character designs reflects the real-world ships), it's astounding that it doesn't acknowledge the gravity of the conflict at all. What about Pearl Harbor? What about the Rape of Nanking? As for the Americans, what about Hiroshima and Nagasaki? What about the keeping of Japanese soldiers' body parts as trophies? Even the campiest of World War II-related media tends to recognize at least some of these; Kantai Collection turns it into an otaku's self-serving dream. Normally I wouldn't mind something like Kantai Collection so much, but when the work in question is so widespread and tensions in the East are so high, a work like this concerns me. Romanticizing history's tragedies makes it easier for them to repeat.

I do agree with this game not being 100% acceptable in the west, seeing that most parts of the world, are still suffering from the tragedies World War II. Hell, even if they decide to put U.S. Naval ships in the game, it still would be prone to stereotypes, and antagonistic tensions. This game seems to be riding the whole moe girl craze, and nothing but. If this game was smart(which i'm assuming it isn't, because again, this is nothing more than otaku drool bait), it would have showcased World War II, and all of the tragedies that occured in it, as well as become a striking history lesson for people of all nationalites. Had the developers actually did thier homework, this could have been one of the most historically accurate, and the most intelectually satisfying game on world war II. This is just like the latest Studio Ghibli film, "The Wind Rises". The movie got a lot of contreversy, for it's portayal of the construction of Japanese war ships, and apperently it didn't sit well with most western viewers, especially those who had family members, who served in World War II.

This game really doesn't offer much in actually educating people about World War II, and it sure as hell doesn't expose the revisionist bullshit, that the Japanese government has been trying to do since the 1960's. This game could have also been a bridge of peace between the Chineese, and Japanese citizens, especially the young citizens, and could have been a bridge of understanding one another. This game could have done so much more, but instead, it's just another generic moe-centric game, with little, to no value. Not to hate on the game or anything, but i found it extremly dissapointing, that this game didn't push the boundaries, and actually become a tool for peace, and understanding.

@Steak on post #1675085 (hakurei reimu and shimakaze (touhou and 1 more) drawn by shiori_(moechin))

2014-05-05T06:00:04-04:00

Strike Witches was about aerial combat, which is similar to naval combat in how impersonal it is. Even the fact that they based the characters off of real life people is glossed over in favor of the idea that they're "the daughters they never had".

@Seika on post #1675085 (hakurei reimu and shimakaze (touhou and 1 more) drawn by shiori_(moechin))

2014-05-05T05:27:37-04:00

There's Hachi and Makigumo's case, and that admiral on board of Tone
But yeah, less civilian involved. There's also trivia that Japanese navy is based on the Royal Navy while the Army is based on the Prussian army

About war, didn't Girls & Panzer got the same reaction although on lesser extent. In Strike Witches, seems like everyone is to distracted by the pantsu

@Steak on post #1675085 (hakurei reimu and shimakaze (touhou and 1 more) drawn by shiori_(moechin))

2014-05-05T05:24:54-04:00

1.) It's not about the war, it's about the ships (even if the maps are very loosely based on battles from the war).

2.) Naval combat is as close to a gentleman's war as you can get. Far away from the land, not much opportunity to commit war crimes. All sailors know that if they violate the implied "rules" concerning saving the crews of enemy ships, then no one will be saved on either side.

@Lunatic6 on post #1675085 (hakurei reimu and shimakaze (touhou and 1 more) drawn by shiori_(moechin))

2014-05-05T05:12:19-04:00

GigaNinjaMaster said:

About War

The same can be said to all the strategic war games, well... humanity still has a thirst for war and violence, that is why we have these games to fulfill this need without actually killing somebody.

This was my original point-of-view but like I said, butt-hurting from the past will never do any good, at least we must do something to prevent repeating the same mistake.

@Tetsamaru on post #1675085 (hakurei reimu and shimakaze (touhou and 1 more) drawn by shiori_(moechin))

2014-05-05T05:02:52-04:00

GigaNinjaMaster said:

You must HATE the Dynasty warriors games then. Ashame because I actually like them.