Comments on post #2403358

@Type-kun on post #2403358 (katyusha, nonna, and clara (girls und panzer) drawn by sw)

2016-07-04T15:38:38-04:00

NNescio said:

Quite illuminating. Thanks for the all the contextual information. Things like these are never mentioned in textbooks, and learning them either requires speaking with native speakers or reading/watching a lot of fiction in the other language.

Feel free to DMail me if there's something you want to clarify in the future :3

NNescio said:

So... time to ship Nonna/Clara?

Another question on дорогой though... isn't мой дорогой ("my dear") used between friends as well? I get the impression that it is roughly equivalent to "buddy" when used between male friends.

The "sweet grandma stereotype" also seems to use мой дорогой (like English "dearie"), as well as the condescending teacher (like a stressed "My dear" followed by a *facepalm*).

Grandma/condescending uses are both valid, but generally used without names. And yes, close male friends sometimes used to call each other that in the past, prior to 1900 I think, though if I had to guess I'd say it was reserved to close friends. It's also still acceptable when writing a letter to someone very close, especially in the form of "my dear friend" ("мой дорогой друг"). However, "мой дорогой (name)" is never used in modern conversations between males, it would creep out the person you're talking to - pretty much the same reaction you'd expect from using "dear" in English, since it's a word commonly used to address a spouse.

Also note that it's still acceptable for women to use "дорогой/дорогая" when addressing both male and female close friends - however, it usually takes form of "(Name), дорогая, ..." or "(Name), дорогая моя, ...", again quite similar to "(Name), my dear, ...". When used on a person not close enough, it becomes a condescending insult, of course.

@NNescio on post #2403358 (katyusha, nonna, and clara (girls und panzer) drawn by sw)

2016-07-04T15:12:26-04:00

Quite illuminating. Thanks for the all the contextual information. Things like these are never mentioned in textbooks, and learning them either requires speaking with native speakers or reading/watching a lot of fiction in the other language.

Type-kun said:

"Дорогой/дорогая (name)" is pretty hilarious since it's a direct equivalent of English "dear". It's acceptable and polite as a prefix for staring/ending a letter to a known person you have a friendly relationship with, akin to "Уважаемый (name)" for neutral letters. However, just like "dear", addressing someone standing next to you as "dear (name)" means you're either going to formally congratulate them in front of guests/colleagues, or will attempt to confess your love in the next few seconds.

So... time to ship Nonna/Clara?

Another question on дорогой though... isn't мой дорогой ("my dear") used between friends as well? I get the impression that it is roughly equivalent to "buddy" when used between male friends.

The "sweet grandma stereotype" also seems to use мой дорогой (like English "dearie"), as well as the condescending teacher (like a sarcastic "My dear" followed by an optional facepalm).

@Type-kun on post #2403358 (katyusha, nonna, and clara (girls und panzer) drawn by sw)

2016-07-04T14:55:01-04:00

NNescio said:

Also you might notice that I dropped the honorific (-sama) there in the Russian version, because I can't quite get any to fit (plus, that's one less declension to deal with). дорогой Катюши sounds weird, Госпожи Катюши is more like (-san), and Сударынь Катюши makes it sound like she's part of the Tsar's family or something.

Товарища Катюши is probably the best fit, given the CCCP themes of Pravda. That said...

Clara does use дорогой + name (never дорогая) whenever she addresses Nonna directly (the Japanese subs will translate this as -sama), in the '2nd person' (that is, the vocative case, when calling out to somebody specifically) . She drops the 'honorific' ("dear" sort of counts as an honorific, right?) when she's referring to someone in the 3rd person.

When translating Jp->Ru, honorifics are generally either kept as-is or dropped entirely, except for some edge cases, because there aren't nearly enough equivalents in Russian, to the point where some native speakers are disputing about an appropriate way to call out to an unknown person. "(name)-sama", though, is often translated as "господин/госпожа (name)", which is used to either talk about/to one's master (by maids, for example), to address a policeman/judge/government official, or to formally/officially address a person. It's very close to English Mr./Mrs., so one wouldn't use it to address a colleague, older comrade or direct superior - for those cases, name+patronymic and "вы" would be used instead.

"Сударь/Сударыня", as well as "Барышня", is very archaic and is always used without a name.

"Товарищ" (comrade) was a direct equivalent to "-san" in USSR. It was used to address anybody as an equal, and it was a big deal - for example, criminals were denied that right, they would instead be called "гражданин" (lit. citizen) by police, and couldn't call a policeman "comrade" as well - that's where the infamous "гражданин начальник" nickname for policemen came from.

Nowadays, "товарищ" is never used except in army. "Гражданин" became a neutral way to officially address someone, but due to its prior history it still carries some negative connotations, so it's only used by officials when addressing others.

"Дорогой/дорогая (name)" is pretty hilarious since it's a direct equivalent of English "dear". It's acceptable and polite as a prefix for staring/ending a letter to a known person you have a friendly relationship with, akin to "Уважаемый (name)" for neutral letters. However, just like "dear", addressing someone standing next to you as "dear (name)" means you're either going to formally congratulate them in front of guests/colleagues, or will attempt to confess your love in the next few seconds.

@NNescio on post #2403358 (katyusha, nonna, and clara (girls und panzer) drawn by sw)

2016-07-04T13:44:45-04:00

Type-kun said:

Everything is grammatically correct, if a tad bit unnatural. "Ради неё, ради того, чтобы стать великим лидером" sort of implies Nonna is doing this 1) for Katyusha and 2) to become a great leader herself. I'd probably phrase it as "Это необходимо, чтобы помочь ей стать великим лидером" - "This is necessary to help her become a great leader." (now I feel like I botched the English version of this one, lol), and the third one as "А это точно необходимо?", "Are you sure this is necessary?"

Got it, thanks. You're the best Russian sensei ever.

Also you might notice that I dropped the honorific (-sama) there in the Russian version, because I can't quite get any to fit (plus, that's one less declension to deal with). дорогой Катюши sounds weird, Госпожи Катюши is more like (-san), and Сударынь Катюши makes it sound like she's part of the Tsar's family or something.

Товарища Катюши is probably the best fit, given the CCCP themes of Pravda. That said...

Clara does use дорогой + name (never дорогая) whenever she addresses Nonna directly (the Japanese subs will translate this as -sama), in the '2nd person' (that is, the vocative case, when calling out to somebody specifically) . She drops the 'honorific' ("dear" sort of counts as an honorific, right?) when she's referring to someone in the 3rd person.

@Type-kun on post #2403358 (katyusha, nonna, and clara (girls und panzer) drawn by sw)

2016-07-04T13:41:19-04:00

NNescio said:

Need a TL check on the Russian lines. Particularly Nonna's. My grammar sucks.

Everything is grammatically correct, if a tad bit unnatural. "Ради неё, ради того, чтобы стать великим лидером" sort of implies Nonna is doing this 1) for Katyusha and 2) to become a great leader herself. I'd probably phrase it as "Это необходимо, чтобы помочь ей стать великим лидером" - "This is necessary to help her become a great leader." (now I feel like I botched the English version of this one, lol), and the third one as "А это точно необходимо?", "Are you sure this is necessary?"

@NNescio on post #2403358 (katyusha, nonna, and clara (girls und panzer) drawn by sw)

2016-07-04T13:21:00-04:00

Need a TL check on the Russian lines. Particularly Nonna's. My grammar sucks.