Comments on post #3102043

@Tk3997 on post #3102043 (belfast, enterprise, cleveland, admiral hipper, and avrora (azur lane and 1 more) drawn by greythorn032)

2018-06-18T07:42:17-04:00

.musouka said:

Could have sworn I had an "again?" typed at the end of that, must have accidentally wrote over it when adding the usn dd part. The midway balancing was needed

It absolutely was not, it's solo win rate was actually awful and the high plane reserve was the ONLY thing that kept it viable given how terrible they'd made the actual planes. They nerfed the shit out of those reserves, gave Haku 33% more fighters in the air assuring it will have air control with an equally skilled player, and then didn't improve the actual planes Midway gets in anyway to compensate. It was a complete fucking crock of shit.

The new modifications for taihou-kai doesn't help midway's fighter situation.

It's almost like the nerfs were completly unwarranted and fucking stupid to start with, oh wait they 100% were.

The issue is that it turns Gearing into a hunter of ijn and undertiered usn dds

Except that it doesn't do that in any damn way. You're just spewing vague nonsense when I already explained why. 380 meters less detection range is not some game changing thing on a ship that already has good detection for the tier. It's not going to hunt anything given that it lacks any method to pierce smoke, has no speed to chase with, and bad shell arcs that mean it must get extremely close to really stack damage and thus be extremely vulnerable to support fire.

Shima is almost a full five knots faster then Gearing, and their detection with the mod is really just EQUALIZED it should be very easy to break contract discounting outside help for the Gearing like a radar cruiser.

It just stacks onto the suffering ijn and undertiered dds already have.

IJN captains should love anyone dumb enough to take this, he's hugely nerfed his offense for absolutely no advantage against them in 99% of circumstances.

Regular Gearing could use some more speed and lower placement in water to handle the creep.

Gearing speed is historical and accurate, a lack of speed was a real complaint with the class. Her freeboard is fine as well, but her handling is way off, the Gearing added double rudders which significantly improved the turning force and radius of the class compared to Flecther, but this is totally ignored in game. Improving her agility in this manner could be a reasonable buff, if you really think it needs one (I don't).

At over a minute to swing them a full 360 it will hinder its use in a knife fight and some of the timings for torpedo launches.

Shima shouldn't be "knife fighting" to start with. At any longer range it will matter little, it will add a few seconds at most if you're properly keeping tabs on the tubes facing, in a tiny fraction of cases the turn time might make you miss a window, but this will likely be nullified by the reduced reload letting you take others.

On some other DD this might be a major downside, but the Shima is a spotter and support ship already. It fights form stealth with longer ranged torpedoes, it doesn't need lighting quick tubes, but reduced reload to get out more walls is surely useful.

Magus said:
The torp reload on Gearing feels excessive to me. That's the only thing I'd want to buff.

You get what you pay for, which is pretty much the best combination of characteristics (speed, range, damage, detection) in the game with a good salvo size, as it is fitted for torp reload (and why the hell would you do anything else?) it's already down to about 100 seconds, significantly less then a fully kitted Shima or Groz despite having better torps.

Giving them Fletcher like reload times would be completely overpowered given the stats of the torpedo themselves, but if you really want reload rate then supposedly Fletcher torps will be an option on Gearing next patch.

@Magus on post #3102043 (belfast, enterprise, cleveland, admiral hipper, and avrora (azur lane and 1 more) drawn by greythorn032)

2018-05-13T16:08:00-04:00

Tk3997 said:

The new Gearing module is actually probably the worst in the list, the ONLY positive it gives vs the stock mod is 5% extra concealment.

I think the worst on the list is the Des Moines upgrade. Giving up 10% radar duration in order to get better acceleration (not even accounting for how you'd have to drop MBM3 to mount it). Yeah I'm going to pass on that. Way too situational to be worth giving up some DPM, when DPM is Des Moines' reason to exist.

Tk3997 said:

It's only "under-performing" in the sense that Fletcher is so fucking amazing it's almost impossible for it to feel stronger, it's more like a side grade.

The torp reload on Gearing feels excessive to me. That's the only thing I'd want to buff.

@.musouka on post #3102043 (belfast, enterprise, cleveland, admiral hipper, and avrora (azur lane and 1 more) drawn by greythorn032)

2018-05-13T02:27:13-04:00

Tk3997 said:

Short Answer: Yes, Wargaming fucking hates USN CVs and IJN DDs. How do you play the game and not know this?

Could have sworn I had an "again?" typed at the end of that, must have accidentally wrote over it when adding the usn dd part. The midway balancing was needed but wargaming loves hitting anything that isn't russian with a bat or sledgehammers.

The new modifications for taihou-kai doesn't help midway's fighter situation.

Tk3997 said:

(Comments on effects on gearing) (cutting it down to a statement as to not take up space)

Musouka said:
Gearing needs a buff but this just doesn't work.

(Fetcher op)

Well, I probably should have worded that last part a bit better as it sounds like I'm calling the new mod a buff when it's one of the even ones compared to something like the straight up buff to radar yueyang(edit:which at this time has been adjusted to Nerf the radar as well).

The issue is that it turns Gearing into a hunter of ijn and undertiered usn dds while hurting its potential against everything else. Sure, it's balanced in the way wargaming wants to tell themselves is balanced(which isn't), but suffers and causes suffering from overspecialisation in a way similar to asashio at a lesser degree. It just stacks onto the suffering ijn and undertiered dds already have. Maybe they're trying a poorly thought out way of bringing rps back with some really shitty layers added to it?

Regular Gearing could use some more speed and lower placement in water to handle the creep.

Tk3997 said:

(Shima stuff about it being the new mod being a buff)

At over a minute to swing them a full 360 it will hinder its use in a knife fight and some of the timings for torpedo launches.

@Tk3997 on post #3102043 (belfast, enterprise, cleveland, admiral hipper, and avrora (azur lane and 1 more) drawn by greythorn032)

2018-05-13T01:03:27-04:00

Magus said:
Monarch and Izumo are ships that Wargaming based off real designs but they never had names (only design numbers) before WG named them. And unlike H-39 they weren't well-known beforehand. Design 15C was just a footnote in the King George V design process and A-140-J2 was one of the most obscure of the Yamato preliminary designs.

Izumo was definitely obscure, no one but the most die hard of IJN nerds knew about her before WoWS.

I don't know that I'd consider Monarch obscure though. The exact design selected notwithstanding, the gun caliber debate for KGV is rather well known and there were quite a number of studies of the class with 15 inch guns. Furthermore the debate over the adequacy of the historical 14 inch guns tended to fuel quite allot of "what if" debates regarding KGV's armaments among enthusiasts long before WoWS, which invariably led into discussion of the various 15 inch proposals and their merits.

Indeed basically everyone that was a realist predicted that one or the other of the 15 inch KGV designs or Vanguard would be the British T8 pretty much from the time of closed beta years ago, but given the track record of tending to try and use real ships for premiums the later was felt most likely to be the T8 British Premium BB. (the rest tended to be die hard historical fanboys who would concoct outlandish methods to try and justify the historic KGV at T8)

.musouka said:

On a not too related note, are they trying to screw over ijn dds

Short Answer: Yes, Wargaming fucking hates USN CVs and IJN DDs. How do you play the game and not know this?

Still in this case it's not really that bad, Shima actually came out better here IMO.

and tier 9-8 usn dds with that new Gearing module?
5.6km concealment and still outguns fletcher classes and bensons. Right after the shima buff they intend to do this to screw her right back over?

The new Gearing module is actually probably the worst in the list, the ONLY positive it gives vs the stock mod is 5% extra concealment. In real terms that amounts to like 380 meters less detection or 5.44km at maximum stealth build. Thing is Gearing eats a detection increase over Fletcher and Beson so this actually doesn't matter much both of them are 5.68km at max stealth build so the Gearing at full stealth has given up 15% of his gun DPS for a 240 meter detection advantage over Benson or Fletcher, if he takes the the gun reload mod in slot six he regains most of that DPS, but then suffers a greatly increased torpedo reload instead.

Furthermore you ALREADY have stealth parity or an advantage over everything at T10 that isn't Shima (Yueyang is theoretically more stealthy, but with the advantage being barely 100 meters it's effectively impossible to actually use it, her and Gearing functionally simultaneously detect each other). Since none of the modules for other T10 DDs increase concealment it's even LESS worth it. You're basically eating a huge DPS nerf (either guns or torps) to gain detection parity with Shimakaze and a tiny advantage over Yueyang.

Given that two of the new modules on other T10 Gun DD boost gun fire rates (Yueyang and Groz) without giving up anything in detection it looks like an even worse trade. "Not worth it" doesn't even begin to cover it.

The Shima module meanwhile is basically a straight upgrade, it gives 10% more torpedo reload reduction and the only "drawback" is that the tubes turn significantly slower, given that they spin like greased up jet engines to start with this is hardly a crippling drawback. If you run it with the Torpedo reload skill the reload on the 12km torps drops to 100 seconds, basically the same as Gearing with full reload skills, but you have 50% more tubes.

This is a complete no brainier, it's a straight torpedo power buff for Shima with basically no meaningful drawbacks if you just take a few seconds now and then to make sure the torp tubes are facing the right side of the ship for a given situation.

Gearing needs a buff but this just doesn't work.

Gearing doesn't really need a buff at all, and this isn't one, the trade off aren't even close to worth it for a miserly detection decrease. The gearing will remain the total package at T10 though great torps, high gunpower for brawling, perfectly adequate concealment, DFAA to kill scout planes or spread CV attacks, the uber USN smoke, and good agility while not being an overly large size. It's only real weakness is that it's kind of slow.

It's only "under-performing" in the sense that Fletcher is so fucking amazing it's almost impossible for it to feel stronger, it's more like a side grade.

@.musouka on post #3102043 (belfast, enterprise, cleveland, admiral hipper, and avrora (azur lane and 1 more) drawn by greythorn032)

2018-05-12T21:36:08-04:00

On a not too related note, are they trying to screw over ijn dds and tier 9-8 usn dds with that new Gearing module? 5.6km concealment and still outguns fletcher classes and bensons. Right after the shima buff they intend to do this to screw her right back over? Gearing needs a buff but this just doesn't work.

@Magus on post #3102043 (belfast, enterprise, cleveland, admiral hipper, and avrora (azur lane and 1 more) drawn by greythorn032)

2018-05-12T19:21:09-04:00

StriderTuna said:

They mainly took paper ships from T8-9; not sure where the Montana falls (I think that's the only ship that's closest to Paper status in the US); though in AL terms, the USN/Royal navy is light on big name BBs.

Belfast's official art is not as fanservicey as it could be all things considered.

Montana is well-known enough to naval enthusiasts that she probably would eventually make it into AL even if there never was a WOWS collab. Same with Lion among the RN BBs; that's probably why AL went with Monarch instead in this collab. Likewise for Alsace. Along with H-39 (known to us WOWS players as Friedrich der Große), Design A-150 (Super-Yamato) and Sovetsky Soyuz, those were the iconic never-were battleships (to the extent a paper ship can be iconic) before WOWS even existed.

It seems to me like the AL devs wanted not just paper ships that are in WOWS but ones that are pretty firmly associated with it rather than being something seen in lots of WW2 naval games. Monarch and Izumo are ships that Wargaming based off real designs but they never had names (only design numbers) before WG named them. And unlike H-39 they weren't well-known beforehand. Design 15C was just a footnote in the King George V design process and A-140-J2 was one of the most obscure of the Yamato preliminary designs. Roon was a straight-up WG invention they put together using a blueprint triple turret and an enlaged version of Hipper's hull. Neptune and Saint-Louis are real designs that were assigned those names before being cancelled but were fairly obscure (especially Neptune) until they showed up in WOWS. Ibuki was a real ship that was laid down but never completed so she's the unusual choice among these, but IRL she was pretty much just a repeat of Mogami. Things like the 10cm AA guns were an alteration that WG gave her for balance purposes and those are visible around AL Ibuki's waist.

My guess would be that if there's a 2nd round of paper shipgirls out of this collab it'll be T10 ships and some of them will be Conqueror, Hindenburg, Großer Kurfürst and Zao (all WG creations). Mosvka also seems like a strong contender. That was a real design but until WOWS it was just a fairly obscure preliminary for Stalingrad and only had a project number (WG named her after Stalingrad's sister ship). And I'd be shocked if a 2nd round happens without including Minotaur.

@T34/38 on post #3102043 (belfast, enterprise, cleveland, admiral hipper, and avrora (azur lane and 1 more) drawn by greythorn032)

2018-05-05T12:27:57-04:00

Magus said:

That said, I personally hope there's a 2nd round of this collaboration later on that adds additional shipgirl captains to WOWS and adds more paper ships to AL. Especially if at least some of the shipgirl captains are earnable via missions rather than just sold for cash like the Haifuri captains.

The collab seems to be a full cement, given the mechanics itself and there is still an "empty" space in the list.

@Atsuitako on post #3102043 (belfast, enterprise, cleveland, admiral hipper, and avrora (azur lane and 1 more) drawn by greythorn032)

2018-05-05T11:54:52-04:00

laisy said:

Just dropping one of my favourite comments on the WoWs news page

As a WOWS player/Forum user I can attest to the veracity of that, as well as the last panel in the above comic.

PS: Any other WoWs players here: look me up: Cruiser_SanJuan

@StriderTuna on post #3102043 (belfast, enterprise, cleveland, admiral hipper, and avrora (azur lane and 1 more) drawn by greythorn032)

2018-05-03T15:22:50-04:00

They mainly took paper ships from T8-9; not sure where the Montana falls (I think that's the only ship that's closest to Paper status in the US); though in AL terms, the USN/Royal navy is light on big name BBs.

Belfast's official art is not as fanservicey as it could be all things considered.

@Tk3997 on post #3102043 (belfast, enterprise, cleveland, admiral hipper, and avrora (azur lane and 1 more) drawn by greythorn032)

2018-05-03T00:11:18-04:00

.musouka said:

To reiterate, don't play Azur so could be wrong about this, but Belfast got through. Isn't she kinda their poster girl for that kinda stuff?

-cough cough- Belfap -cough-

Then again, my impression seems have a lot of them being that, though that could be because whatever I see of them is from Danbooru and the occasional peek around for translated lines.

A bit of cleavage on an otherwise full length, covering dress =/= not actually wearing a fucking bottom. Eugen isn't actually wearing pants or a skirt in her official art, the only thing sort of covering her underwear is a little flap of fabric hanging off the front of her shirt.

Belfast just gets all the porn because "OMFG PRIM MEIDO WITH BIG TITS".

@Magus on post #3102043 (belfast, enterprise, cleveland, admiral hipper, and avrora (azur lane and 1 more) drawn by greythorn032)

2018-05-02T01:13:49-04:00

icywinter said:

Cleveland, though?

Pretty sure GoldSaw was talking about the Azur Lane side of the collaboration. There's British, German, Japanese and French paper ships from World of Warships getting shipgirl counterparts in Azur Lane (Monarch and Neptune, Roon, Izumo and Ibuki, Saint-Louis) but no American ones.

But the issue there is that there's only 3 paper ships in the USN tech tree currently. And both Phoenix and Nicholas share the names of real ships that are already represented in Azur Lane. They could have included Montana, but that might still happen anyway since Montana isn't that firmly tied to World of Warships. She was already perhaps the most thoroughly documented cancelled warship in history, with the possible exception of the aircraft carrier USS United States.

There's 2 more American paper ships coming soon (Dallas and Seattle), but this collaboration might go live before the USN cruiser split does. So it's not as if those ships were going to be introduced to AL before they go live in WOWS.

That said, I personally hope there's a 2nd round of this collaboration later on that adds additional shipgirl captains to WOWS and adds more paper ships to AL. Especially if at least some of the shipgirl captains are earnable via missions rather than just sold for cash like the Haifuri captains.

@nabusco on post #3102043 (belfast, enterprise, cleveland, admiral hipper, and avrora (azur lane and 1 more) drawn by greythorn032)

2018-05-01T04:31:59-04:00

OH lord is this the first MaxMoeFoePokemon parody here?

Thats clearly from his [M A S S I V E L E G E N D] intros

@NWSiaCB on post #3102043 (belfast, enterprise, cleveland, admiral hipper, and avrora (azur lane and 1 more) drawn by greythorn032)

2018-04-30T23:02:00-04:00

Arthion said:

The one thing I don't get about these people is why they care, they don't have to take part and they don't even have to see it. Even the previous HSF event was opt in only. Plus you can just turn all non-historical stuff off for crying out loud. Why ruin other people's fun just because it doesn't fit your taste and despite not affecting you in the slightest bit?

Because these are the same people that will go onto every game with anything anime-like in terms of graphics and say that anything foreign-looking is a cancer that needs to die and doesn't belong on their asset-flip platform. Put simply, they're just xenophobes who scream at the idea that there might be something made by non-English speakers in their Russian-made game.

@Arthion on post #3102043 (belfast, enterprise, cleveland, admiral hipper, and avrora (azur lane and 1 more) drawn by greythorn032)

2018-04-30T22:06:35-04:00

The one thing I don't get about these people is why they care, they don't have to take part and they don't even have to see it. Even the previous HSF event was opt in only. Plus you can just turn all non-historical stuff off for crying out loud. Why ruin other people's fun just because it doesn't fit your taste and despite not affecting you in the slightest bit?

@Zelinkokitsune on post #3102043 (belfast, enterprise, cleveland, admiral hipper, and avrora (azur lane and 1 more) drawn by greythorn032)

2018-04-30T12:18:49-04:00

Perfect summary of how toxic the NA forums are.

@drmchsr0 on post #3102043 (belfast, enterprise, cleveland, admiral hipper, and avrora (azur lane and 1 more) drawn by greythorn032)

2018-04-28T21:51:53-04:00

Not enough "WG is a scam", "Anime is Childporn" and "Fuck Jingles" to be the EWOT clique.

@.musouka on post #3102043 (belfast, enterprise, cleveland, admiral hipper, and avrora (azur lane and 1 more) drawn by greythorn032)

2018-04-28T01:11:28-04:00

Robert3186 said:
Seems like she was probably judged 'too slutty'

To reiterate, don't play Azur so could be wrong about this, but Belfast got through. Isn't she kinda their poster girl for that kinda stuff?

-cough cough- Belfap -cough-

Then again, my impression seems have a lot of them being that, though that could be because whatever I see of them is from Danbooru and the occasional peek around for translated lines.

@laisy on post #3102043 (belfast, enterprise, cleveland, admiral hipper, and avrora (azur lane and 1 more) drawn by greythorn032)

2018-04-27T11:12:33-04:00

Tk3997 said:

As I said I suspect she was gauged as a bit too slutty for the wider WG crowd on account of her official art having her exposed pantsu clad ass jutting out front and center.

Hilariously, from the gold mine that is the NA news page comment section

Nice CROTCH shots for the captains of the Aurora, Cleveland, Admiral Hipper AND Saint Louis. If I were a pervert I would get those. Guess I will wait for legal age ones. Don't want to get arrested for having that on my P.C.
NA salt mines

Hard to avoid that when it comes to anime style, eh?

@RenerDeCastro on post #3102043 (belfast, enterprise, cleveland, admiral hipper, and avrora (azur lane and 1 more) drawn by greythorn032)

2018-04-27T11:02:24-04:00

icywinter said:

Cleveland, though?

Don't forget Enterprise.

@Tk3997 on post #3102043 (belfast, enterprise, cleveland, admiral hipper, and avrora (azur lane and 1 more) drawn by greythorn032)

2018-04-27T00:50:51-04:00

Slysheen said:

Ehh I like both Prinz and Hipper for different reasons, I'm frankly surprised there's no Prinz though considering the ranked bundle thing they're doing.

As I said I suspect she was gauged as a bit too slutty for the wider WG crowd on account of her official art having her exposed pantsu clad ass jutting out front and center.

I was hoping for something like the ARP camos though, maybe later.

If you mean being able to earn the actual ship through a quest as a short cut that wasn't likely given that half of those chosen are premiums. Belfast in particular was banished to the Christmas Casino never to return to sale so they sure as hell weren't going to be giving copies of her out for free for completing a quest line!

I'm actually pretty surprised there's no Atago though considering her popularity and how integral she is as the credit grinder most people get.

Atago is still pretty good, but has dropped off as more cruiser lines and new premiums have been added. In particular radar and smoke became a key gameplay features for cruisers. Even with some of the changes to smoke MM has gotten worse since launch due to some changes and she doesn't up tier all that well (not many T8s do), she's still pretty solid in ranked though.

If they were going to do one of those sisters though they should use Takao, because then you could have put AL Takao in the ARP Takao for maximum normie rage.

Actually I'm surprised there's no Japanese ships at all considering how numerous they are.

Japan has gotten quite allot of free shit and special commanders in past events, so I think they might've avoided it for that reason.

AdventZero said:

Bless SEA Server. We troll people with a torpedo wall and shouting "Poi" in the chat every now and then.

People sometimes join in with "nanodesu."

The NA server isn't really that bad. I'd honestly say that people that are into this stuff outnumber the haters on it, the indifferent dwarf both, but as ever the haters tend to scream the loudest.

zankde said:

Maybe someday we'll get Enterprise users typing OWARI DA while sending a flock of TBF to an unsuspecting BB

Which then land like one hit because Enterprise's drop pattern is cancer (unless it's a German BB, but in that chase it's OWARI DA because "lol AP Bombs").

Enterprise is largely a fighter mule in game though, the best one at T8 after they took a chainsaw to Lexington. At this point she basically just automatically wins Air Superiority (unless she happens to come across the prancing unicorn that is a 3-1-2 Shoukaku), but then it becomes a question of trying to make use of that with somewhat lackluster striking power.

Unholy numbers of TBs raining death upon the defenseless peons below is more Kaga's shtick.