Comments on post #3266534

@slave2thedrago on post #3266534 (bowsette, princess peach, and mario (mario and 1 more) drawn by tony_kuusisto)

2018-12-18T08:11:23-05:00

azurelorochi said:

Making a looooooooot of assumptions here.

You're assuming Bowsette is canon(she's not).
You're assuming the scenario that must be set to make Bowser decide to become a woman is canon(it's not).
You're assuming the interpretation of Bowsette in this comic is canon(it's not).
You're assuming all portrayals of Bowser across all games are equally canon(it's not).
You're assuming Mario and Bowser's attraction to each other are genuine and will be long lasting(evidences please).
You're assuming Bowsette's mentality works 100% the same as Bowser(most artwork clearly show that not to be the case, even when ignoring her relationships with any characters).
You're assuming there are only one version of "marrying for love", "marrying for sex", "marrying for benefits" each(very certainly not true).
You're assuming one person can only have one form of attraction to another, be it at one time or throughout a long period of time(also very certainly untrue).

Bowsette was a product of a joke comic. A thing meant for shits and giggles. Most comedy, even the greatest ones like Monty Python breaks down once you try to take them beyond face value.

Please don't pretend you have just discovered the universal truth for all mankind from a comedy 4koma.

Uh lolwat? I’m just talking about this comic and the concept of the character in general and going through my thoughts. I didn’t make any “assumptions”

@azurelorochi on post #3266534 (bowsette, princess peach, and mario (mario and 1 more) drawn by tony_kuusisto)

2018-10-04T22:06:52-04:00

NWSiaCB said:

stuff

Thing is, even if we take ayyk92's Bowsette as the absolute canon authority on what Bowsette is and ignores everyone else's, I still hardly interpret Bowsette-Mario relationship as being meant to be intimate, long lasting, or genuine.

All I saw from the comic was Bowser's attempt to troll Peach "you rejected me? now let's see how you react to me being HOTTER than you!". Mario was kinda just an accessory to that.

Now for how Bowsette actually acts differently from Bowser, ayyk92's 4koma hardly has any evidences to base any such opinion upon, so maybe she still completely acts like a monster godzilla turtle.

But if I am to "pick and choose" at least a solid guideline from the consensus of the fanon, even without thinking about her relationships with anyone else, Bowsette's actions still much more resembles that of a human female rather than a human male. So no, saying he's "bisexual" still doesn't explain that. In most fan art portrayals(again, disregarding relationships) Bowsette still acts completely different than the Odyssey version of Bowser.

At any rate, as you said, even standard Bowser's personality was never set in stone by Miyamoto himself, so if someone think fanon Bowser really wants a committed romantic relationship with Mario, whatever, it's not the most insane slash ship I've seen. But Bowsette as a whole is already just a nearly blank slate for people to project whatever (erotic or otherwise)thoughts onto, so claiming "my interpretation is the absolute truth" is just, no.

@NWSiaCB on post #3266534 (bowsette, princess peach, and mario (mario and 1 more) drawn by tony_kuusisto)

2018-10-04T14:35:15-04:00

azurelorochi said:

Making a looooooooot of assumptions here.

You're assuming Bowsette is canon(she's not).
You're assuming the scenario that must be set to make Bowser decide to become a woman is canon(it's not).
You're assuming the interpretation of Bowsette in this comic is canon(it's not).
You're assuming all portrayals of Bowser across all games are equally canon(it's not).
You're assuming Mario and Bowser's attraction to each other are genuine and will be long lasting(evidences please).
You're assuming Bowsette's mentality works 100% the same as Bowser(most artwork clearly show that not to be the case, even when ignoring her relationships with any characters).
You're assuming there are only one version of "marrying for love", "marrying for sex", "marrying for benefits" each(very certainly not true).
You're assuming one person can only have one form of attraction to another, be it at one time or throughout a long period of time(also very certainly untrue).

Bowsette was a product of a joke comic. A thing meant for shits and giggles. Most comedy, even the greatest ones like Monty Python breaks down once you try to take them beyond face value.

Please don't pretend you have just discovered the universal truth for all mankind from a comedy 4koma.

The thing is, Bowsette may not be canon, but it references canon. The original comic is based directly off of Odyssey's ending, where Peach snubs both Mario and Bowser and walks off. This comic also references that aspect of canon, and slave2thedrago is building off that, so there is canon that this discussion can be built off of.

The other thing is that as soon as you start talking about one game's plot being "more canon" than another, you are basically going straight to my own point about Mario "canon" and "lore" being so loosely defined that you can pick-and-choose whatever canon you want to make whatever point you want. (I mean, there are images with Bowsette doing the "cover Bowser Jr.'s eyes" from the parental guidance video, which portrayed Bowser as a good and caring parent... which is kind of wildly different from most Bowser portrayals.)

Beyond that, however, as much as this fanon continuity is built upon pick-and-choose canon, it's still capable of keeping its own internal continuity straight, and clearly wants to play itself out seriously (at least after the first page), so taking it seriously when it's being serious isn't crazy, either.

In the first strip, it's shown that Mario seems to go for marrying Bowsette basically on a whim, and he's not in subsequent strips actively showing his motivations, so questioning why he's attracted to Bowsette is totally valid. Bowsette is motivated by fear of losing Mario, but why exactly she wants to keep Mario in the first place isn't well-explored either.

As for whether Bowsette is inherently motivated differently than Bowser just by being Bowsette is unclear and possibly irrelevant because, as you point out, this isn't canon Bowser's motivation, and non-Bowsette Bowser never appears, so it's impossible to tell unless Bowsette actually does lose the Super Crown at some point and behaves differently.

@azurelorochi on post #3266534 (bowsette, princess peach, and mario (mario and 1 more) drawn by tony_kuusisto)

2018-10-04T11:16:34-04:00

slave2thedrago said:

stuffs

Making a looooooooot of assumptions here.

You're assuming Bowsette is canon(she's not).
You're assuming the scenario that must be set to make Bowser decide to become a woman is canon(it's not).
You're assuming the interpretation of Bowsette in this comic is canon(it's not).
You're assuming all portrayals of Bowser across all games are equally canon(it's not).
You're assuming Mario and Bowser's attraction to each other are genuine and will be long lasting(evidences please).
You're assuming Bowsette's mentality works 100% the same as Bowser(most artwork clearly show that not to be the case, even when ignoring her relationships with any characters).
You're assuming there are only one version of "marrying for love", "marrying for sex", "marrying for benefits" each(very certainly not true).
You're assuming one person can only have one form of attraction to another, be it at one time or throughout a long period of time(also very certainly untrue).

Bowsette was a product of a joke comic. A thing meant for shits and giggles. Most comedy, even the greatest ones like Monty Python breaks down once you try to take them beyond face value.

Please don't pretend you have just discovered the universal truth for all mankind from a comedy 4koma.

@Garrus on post #3266534 (bowsette, princess peach, and mario (mario and 1 more) drawn by tony_kuusisto)

2018-10-03T19:07:00-04:00

NWSiaCB said:

TL;DR: If you think about it, you lose.

In other words, Bowser functions on Puchi logic. Thank you, I'll never be able to look at that the same way again.

@NWSiaCB on post #3266534 (bowsette, princess peach, and mario (mario and 1 more) drawn by tony_kuusisto)

2018-10-03T13:48:32-04:00

slave2thedrago said:

Also. Let us not forget WHO bowser is when we’re talking about Love an dlong lasting relationships.

Selfish, narcissistic, sadistic(even in this comic), greedy, vindictive, petty asshole. A bully. A tyrannical ruler. Someone who, in this comic put his feelings of love on the same level as hearing villagers scream.

What sort of “love” can you expect from such a person? I think we know what that looks like, right? His idea of showing love and affection was kidnapping and enslaving kingdoms. Trying to use force and coercion to get his way. The same person who started out THIS comic trying to emotionally bully the person he shooosedly loves, bysteing the object of her affections. This is the “love” you get from this guy.

Is such a person really capable of having a healthy relationship?

If not for the light hearted time of yeh series he’d be considered abusive among other horrible things.

Like lets not mince words. This is a BAD PERSON. A “monster” even.

As I said in response to a comment in a later strip, the thing about the Mario franchise is that Mario continuity is suuuuuper fungible. Sometimes he's a great lord of terror about to rewrite the galaxy to his own whim while forcing a sham marriage to produce lots of definitely-in-wedlock-rape-babies, while other times, he's just a chuunibyou edgelord that likes wearing black leather with spikes and shouting stuff for attention, but otherwise just gets along with everyone. There was a Game Theory video about how it's possible all the kidnappings are staged (citing Mario Bros. 3's introduction being literally on a stage) as some sort of danger fantasy because Peach doesn't get in the mood unless there's some strong, sweaty men "fighting" over her, and Mario and Bowser are much more friendly rivals that go Go-Karting all the time in reality that just fake being deadly rivals for the kidnapping events.

In any event, the really evil stuff seems to be routinely forgotten or maybe becomes discontinuity every time they want a buddy-buddy Mario-Bowser story, and that's just as much the "canon" of Mario as everything else. (That, or they're all -including Nintendo headquarters- just living in FURIOUS denial of the implications of forcing unwilling marriage upon someone, and think that attempted rape victims going out to play a friendly game of tennis with their attempted rapists is totally normal.)

This is pretty much par for the course in Saturday Morning Cartoon villains, as well. Villains declare evil goals, but are so vague and/or goofy about how they achieve them that they can have heel-face-turns and nobody really thinks too hard about it. Hence, a villain is just a really, REALLY tsundere character, but if they're shown some affection, maybe they'll stay good?

TL;DR: If you think about it, you lose.

@slave2thedrago on post #3266534 (bowsette, princess peach, and mario (mario and 1 more) drawn by tony_kuusisto)

2018-10-03T08:01:55-04:00

Also. Let us not forget WHO bowser is when we’re talking about Love an dlong lasting relationships.

Selfish, narcissistic, sadistic(even in this comic), greedy, vindictive, petty asshole. A bully. A tyrannical ruler. Someone who, in this comic put his feelings of love on the same level as hearing villagers scream.

What sort of “love” can you expect from such a person? I think we know what that looks like, right? His idea of showing love and affection was kidnapping and enslaving kingdoms. Trying to use force and coercion to get his way. The same person who started out THIS comic trying to emotionally bully the person he shooosedly loves, bysteing the object of her affections. This is the “love” you get from this guy.

Is such a person really capable of having a healthy relationship?

If not for the light hearted time of yeh series he’d be considered abusive among other horrible things.

Like lets not mince words. This is a BAD PERSON. A “monster” even.

@slave2thedrago on post #3266534 (bowsette, princess peach, and mario (mario and 1 more) drawn by tony_kuusisto)

2018-10-03T04:28:57-04:00

Well that’s the interesting thing about a “marriage based on a boner” if you think about it. To a certain degree all of them are, aren’t they?

There’s a reason why people don’t marry their platonic friends. There’s a reason why you can have a deep long lasting relationship with someone, but the romantic partner is considered the big one that matters most

I’d say the power of boners, ie, sexual attraction is a lot more of a powerful force than people like to admit. It’s the aspect of romantic love people like to SAY is secondary but it’s the thing that defines the relationship in the first place if not for that “boner” ones wife would just be they’re really good female friend.

That “boner” makes families. That “boner” forms a bond that’s so deep people are willing to die for them.

The interesting part of this is that it DOESNT NECESSARILY require anyone to be bisexual or genderluid at all. After all. These are heterosexual relationships based off of heterosexual attractions. Bowser is a woman now, apparently an anatomically correct one.

There’s a reason why the internet(for the most part) wasn’t interested in bowser sexually until he became like this. There’s a reason Mario wasn’t either. There’s a reason bowser wasn’t pursuing Mario either.

Would this have occurred if bowser remained himself? I guess that depends on what the writer thinks.

That’s why I’m interested in how much this power up impacts personality and even preferences. The question of if bowser was attracted to men before, or that becoming a woman simply turned him into a heterosexual woman.

As for “loving bowser for bowser” Mario didn’t seem to before why does he now? What changed? I the answer is obvious isn’t it? But is it causative or did it just help things along?

Is it that

“It always was this way but things can progress more naturally now that bowser is a woman”

“It only became this way by literally and physically changing the nature of the people involved”

Both are interesting concepts to explore

Plus there’s the huge elephant in the room that bowser is a literal imitation of o peach. A peach that is actually attainable unlike the real one. It’s like making a sex doll of your crush. One can’t just pretend like this isnt material, especially since these two were brought together by their mutual love And rejection of peach in the first place. These feelings can’t have just magically disappeared into thin air for either of them. If they did, what does that say about the both of them and how “real” their love is? If they can just fall out of love this quickly and drastically? Is that the basis of a long lasting relationship?

This all seems to be spur of the moment. In da t it’s based off a TEMPORARY power up. What if, ultimately this isn’t meant to last? What if it was never really meant to be in the first place?

There are other fairy tales liek this where the monster becomes human temporarily.

Look at what bowser is saying. His primary motivation is rejection and his empathy with that rejection and Mario’s struggles plus, a desire to be loved. It’s hard to ignore that someone who is lonely tends to cling to attention. a lot of lonely people end up acting this way. When I had my first relationship, my loneliness made me far more dependent and desperate too. I loved the fact that I was being loved...more than the person. If that makes sense. This is a common problem a lot of people have and is pretty believable here.

i guess I’m saying “a relationship based on a boner” is far more of a deep concept with deeper implications than one would think.

Also I disagree about mutual rejection “not being the basis for a long lasting relationship” long lasting relationships can have a number of bases.

There are many cultures where people marry for financial, political, culturally obligatory reasons. My friends grandparents have been married longer than I’ve been alive and it was arranged. Some people marry just because the woman became pregnant. And those relationships can last. Whereas there are just as many relationships based off “Love” that end ridiculously quickly. If anything I’d say “Lovey dovey feelings” aren’t a basis for a long lasting relationship on their own.

But honestly, many things can drive eachother together. I mean, didn’t they already have a long lasting relationship before this? How long have they known eachother and fought together? They were brought together by their mutual love of peach and that was enough for them to constantly fight eachother. If the emotions are that powerful, who says they can’t be a glue for a relationship?

Especially since this seems to be born out of what started mutual respect.

....but yeah. This is just what I’m thinking, seeing this.

It depends on what the artist wants, how deep we’re going, how idealistic we’re going, how the artist views the characters and love in general etc.

It’s fun to think about either way~~~

@NWSiaCB on post #3266534 (bowsette, princess peach, and mario (mario and 1 more) drawn by tony_kuusisto)

2018-10-03T03:02:07-04:00

slave2thedrago said:

stuff

The idea of a "deep, fulfilling bromance" isn't misogynist itself, but I'd guess that if you are misogynistic, then it probably means that you aren't going to be that capable of emotionally fulfilling relationships with women, so a bromance is going to be relatively more fulfilling in a direct comparison. I remember that in Greek, there are four different words for 'love', including romantic love, love for family, love for friends, and love for mankind.

As for Bowser's sexuality in this comic... well, I think the whole "Bowsette" thing kind of relies upon Bowser (and everyone else) just being gender-fluid, bisexual, and generally sexually open-minded just to entertain the whole idea. (But then again, he's a freakin' dragon-turtle that chases after a human woman to start with, so he's interested in effective "beastiality" even in canon...)

Beyond that, their motivation is kind of ill-developed, as this was sort of a one-off gag that the artist is desperately trying to backfill a plotline into. Mario seems to have just decided on this spur-of-the-moment, but the nature of his feelings for Bowser aren't really stated, which is precisely why Bowser can have such anxiety attacks over them. Hopefully, Mario isn't getting into a marriage based solely upon a boner, and actually does like Bowser for Bowser, and would just go find another Super Crown to slap on Bowser if this one got knocked off. (And actually thinking through all that, this is really a heavily trans-positive story, isn't it?)

I also seriously doubt this will be revealed to be motivated just by mutual rejection, as that's just plain not a basis for any kind of lasting relationship, and would just be depressing after all this build-up.

@slave2thedrago on post #3266534 (bowsette, princess peach, and mario (mario and 1 more) drawn by tony_kuusisto)

2018-10-03T02:40:29-04:00

These type of things get my mind racing.~

This brings up something interesting of a fairly recent phenomenon where some guys are saying that their “bromances” with their guy friends are way more emotionally fulfilling with their relationships with women because they understand eachother on a deeper level and they can relate to eachother s experiences more. This is kind of a similar concept in that bowser is saying he has a deeper understanding of marios feelings because he can relate more personally to his circumstances

The idea that a guy makes a more fitting romantic partner, if only that pesky matter of attraction was t I. The way. It’s an interesting concept. I’ve heard some people say it’s misogynist in a way.

Also was bowser gay the whole time in this comic? Is he gay now? Does this power make him hetero and he’ll lose affection as soon as he takes it off?

If he’s motivated mostly by the mutual rejection from peach, is this more like a proxy for that from two people who have been brought together through hardship? Like they both couldn’t have peach so they settled for eachother? It’s kind of hard to think that they were both in love with her for all these years and suddenly that’s all gone right?

How much of this so just licking eachothers wounds? How much of this is bowser just wanting to be loved by ANYONE?

The fact that Mario only became interested in bowser when he looked like this is a factor. I mean the reality(as it is) is that this is big fire breathing dragon turtle. Even if there is an emotional attachment is Mario going to be kissing and uh...screwing him? Without the power up?

This isn’t bowsers “true self” it’s an imitation of peach.

Also since this si a power up one would logically assume that he will lose it if he gets hit.

So much interesting potential things to explore here. I have no idea how much we’re going to explore this psychologically rather than just go for cutesy lovey dovey romance stuff.

@Zettamorose on post #3266534 (bowsette, princess peach, and mario (mario and 1 more) drawn by tony_kuusisto)

2018-09-29T12:10:10-04:00

Anyone feeling like this is some kind of gender-inverted Mario World Western Show?

@Orochi_Herman on post #3266534 (bowsette, princess peach, and mario (mario and 1 more) drawn by tony_kuusisto)

2018-09-27T13:43:54-04:00

firechikara said:

Page 4 is up:
http://pencilsponyforge.tumblr.com/post/178512753333/here-it-is-as-promised-bowsette-is-such-a

And plenty of seeds of doubt for everyone! post #3268761

@firechikara on post #3266534 (bowsette, princess peach, and mario (mario and 1 more) drawn by tony_kuusisto)

2018-09-27T13:33:33-04:00

Page 4 is up:
http://pencilsponyforge.tumblr.com/post/178512753333/here-it-is-as-promised-bowsette-is-such-a

@Kikimaru on post #3266534 (bowsette, princess peach, and mario (mario and 1 more) drawn by tony_kuusisto)

2018-09-26T17:53:58-04:00

Bansho said:

Being with someone out of pity isn't much better...

I don't think she is, though.
(S)he seems to have always loved him, in a different way before maybe.
The Super Crown just made it easier to admit.

@Bansho on post #3266534 (bowsette, princess peach, and mario (mario and 1 more) drawn by tony_kuusisto)

2018-09-26T13:50:13-04:00

Being with someone out of pity isn't much better...

@Zero_00 on post #3266534 (bowsette, princess peach, and mario (mario and 1 more) drawn by tony_kuusisto)

2018-09-26T00:21:55-04:00

I just gotta say if that's how peach really thinks of her relationship with mario and it turns out to be canon then really she only has herself to blame

@Xanorsky on post #3266534 (bowsette, princess peach, and mario (mario and 1 more) drawn by tony_kuusisto)

2018-09-25T22:39:04-04:00

For any current and future artist making Bowsette art, I'd like to see more of this, more story about how Bowsette would be. Give her life.

@Mr.Vkl on post #3266534 (bowsette, princess peach, and mario (mario and 1 more) drawn by tony_kuusisto)

2018-09-25T21:40:38-04:00

"Is it better to have been born good or overcome your evil nature through great effort?"

Ya got this, Dragon.

@Kurai_Tora on post #3266534 (bowsette, princess peach, and mario (mario and 1 more) drawn by tony_kuusisto)

2018-09-25T21:09:27-04:00

You just had to plant the seed of doubt, right? Peach, you sore loser...

@KazuyaRazuKazama on post #3266534 (bowsette, princess peach, and mario (mario and 1 more) drawn by tony_kuusisto)

2018-09-25T21:06:32-04:00

Bowser isn't best girl.
Bowser is Greatest Best Girl.

Nice to see people thinking of and writing up relationship scenes like this.