Comments on post #3268133

@Saladofstones on post #3268133 (donald trump (real life) drawn by chanta_(ayatakaoisii))

2018-10-05T15:25:27-04:00

chinatsu said:

Why should the race or culture of an artist affect if something is on-topic? The post wasn't flagged for being non-anime art by a Japanese artist but rather non-anime-related art. If an artist mimicked the Disney style perfectly should that be accepted because they're Japanese? Or say they painted a Monet, should that be here just because of immutable characteristics like their race? It just does not stand to reason.

Unless there's been a change, the focus was always on japanese artists, specifically anime, but non-anime art by japanese artists that do anime normally is okay providing its decent enough.

Given that anime is a distinctly Japanese creation, so goes the exception regarding Japanese artists, especially on pixiv.

Anime also has a wide range of styles and sub-genres and what not. Something like Jin-Roh, for example. If you want to get technical post #3228568 is of a western character (King-Kong) crossover with a Japanese novel (The Ring). While there are two manga, they follow closer with the novel's depiction, which did not include, to my knowledge, the now iconic "ghost girl popping through the TV." originated with the movie. This artist also has done plenty of western media/personalities before in a less overtly anime style.

I suppose you could get cheeky/literal/pedantic and then make all sorts of arguments about what is and is not anime style or what have you, but this isn't a unique case from this artist.

This is not an implicit endorsement of Trump or making a double-standard because he is in this image, its just a judgement call. I recognized the artist, I thought this image was of good quality, and despite it being more of a portrait or whatever, it still has the style that I can say is typical of the artist. I'm not a technical expert, but all I can say is that the way he does eyes is distinct to me.

If this were a board focused on, I don't know, western horror, then I could say that a model of an eastern horror monster made by a well known western-horror sculptor would also count, due to the connection from the maker.

@79248cm/s on post #3268133 (donald trump (real life) drawn by chanta_(ayatakaoisii))

2018-10-04T11:45:33-04:00

chinatsu said:

You're missing the point. How is an image on-topic because of the race of the artist? Or because the artist also illustrates anime? Consider if this were the only known picture by the artist, would it be on topic? Someone's race or culture doesn't impute some qualities to a picture.

As I understand it, the artist's background is a major determining factor in this case of a non-anime subject. The rules state that western style works of non Japanese manga, games, etc are allowed so long as the image is of higher artistic quality than normal eastern style works. If one were to post Michelangelo's fresco "The Last Judgement" it is non-anime/eastern style but of good artistic quality. However, I seriously doubt most cardboard box users would want the main page to be filled with Renaissance artworks. In my mind, the background of the artist or the work being somewhat related to anime is an important aspect of approval.

The image is of good quality and is made by an author who is known to do anime themed works so to me it makes sense that it was approved.

@chilled_sake on post #3268133 (donald trump (real life) drawn by chanta_(ayatakaoisii))

2018-10-03T04:26:12-04:00

79248cm/s said:

This is probably the first approved image that I have seen that has been approved but with equal negative rating to the favorites. lol

Someone early on suspected the image was just a photoshop job, like taking a photo and making it look drawn. Others were saying that this is the artists work and style, that is is of good quality and relevant to the site. It isn't like some random drawing of Trump was put on the site, but it came from an artist that does anime themed works too.

You're missing the point. How is an image on-topic because of the race of the artist? Or because the artist also illustrates anime? Consider if this were the only known picture by the artist, would it be on topic? Someone's race or culture doesn't impute some qualities to a picture.

@79248cm/s on post #3268133 (donald trump (real life) drawn by chanta_(ayatakaoisii))

2018-10-02T08:57:25-04:00

This is probably the first approved image that I have seen that has been approved but with equal negative rating to the favorites. lol

chinatsu said:

Why should the race or culture of an artist affect if something is on-topic?

Someone early on suspected the image was just a photoshop job, like taking a photo and making it look drawn. Others were saying that this is the artists work and style, that is is of good quality and relevant to the site. It isn't like some random drawing of Trump was put on the site, but it came from an artist that does anime themed works too.

@chilled_sake on post #3268133 (donald trump (real life) drawn by chanta_(ayatakaoisii))

2018-10-02T08:09:39-04:00

Saladofstones said:

Its from a Japanese artist, that makes it on-topic. We have still-life, surrealist, western-style and what have you.

Non-anime art from a Japanese artist isn't grounds for flagging, only to exercise discretion when uploading so that it isn't just doodle quality.

That said, the "old man" tag made me laugh for some reason.

Why should the race or culture of an artist affect if something is on-topic? The post wasn't flagged for being non-anime art by a Japanese artist but rather non-anime-related art. If an artist mimicked the Disney style perfectly should that be accepted because they're Japanese? Or say they painted a Monet, should that be here just because of immutable characteristics like their race? It just does not stand to reason.

@Saladofstones on post #3268133 (donald trump (real life) drawn by chanta_(ayatakaoisii))

2018-09-28T12:44:29-04:00

darkspire91 said:

Isn't he the oldest sitting President we've ever had?

He's the oldest at the start at 71, yes, but President Reagan was 69 and served eight years, which puts him at 77.

If Trump has a second term, then he will surpass President Reagan, otherwise Reagan will have him beat.

@79248cm/s on post #3268133 (donald trump (real life) drawn by chanta_(ayatakaoisii))

2018-09-27T22:47:58-04:00

Yeah, even though I am a "yuge" fan of the Trump I normally wouldn't think this is Danbooru appropriate since he isn't in anime form. That said, apparently western-style artwork is now acceptable on a case-by-case basis if it is of good quality, and I would vote that it is.

Plus it is like the Obama "not bad" face. It is funny no matter what political faction you belong to.

@darkspire91 on post #3268133 (donald trump (real life) drawn by chanta_(ayatakaoisii))

2018-09-27T22:12:18-04:00

Saladofstones said:

That said, the "old man" tag made me laugh for some reason.

Isn't he the oldest sitting President we've ever had?

@Saladofstones on post #3268133 (donald trump (real life) drawn by chanta_(ayatakaoisii))

2018-09-27T19:25:17-04:00

Its from a Japanese artist, that makes it on-topic. We have still-life, surrealist, western-style and what have you.

Non-anime art from a Japanese artist isn't grounds for flagging, only to exercise discretion when uploading so that it isn't just doodle quality.

That said, the "old man" tag made me laugh for some reason.

@chilled_sake on post #3268133 (donald trump (real life) drawn by chanta_(ayatakaoisii))

2018-09-27T05:08:32-04:00

nonamethanks said:
A one-line sarcastic remark is "admonishing" now? You might want to look up the dictionary definition of that word.

I'd consider suggesting a political bias in that realm.

And it's clear that "western" here means the style being drawn, it has nothing to do with whatever's being represented or the nationality of the artist.

What about this style is western?

it's pretty clear that this picture was drawn in an asian style.

It's clear that's what you think. I've tried to elucidate what possible basis there could be for that, or any possible element of eastern culture is represented. It's news to me that digital compositions are an "asian" style.

In any case I have no interest in starting a debate on the ontology of anime pictures on the internet so I'll leave the pointless arguing to someone else.

I don't mind you exiting the discussion. It was my hope you could put forward an answer as to what possible eastern styles or cultural references are being used here.

@nonamethanks on post #3268133 (donald trump (real life) drawn by chanta_(ayatakaoisii))

2018-09-27T04:58:44-04:00

It's a picture by a japanese artist. I think it's funny and good enough. I like it, I uploaded it. That's the only reason an uploader should have to upload something. Whether they are right in their assessment of the quality of a picture is up to flaggers and approvers.

What's the point of admonishing the flagger

A one-line sarcastic remark is "admonishing" now? You might want to look up the dictionary definition of that word.

And it's clear that "western" here means the style being drawn, it has nothing to do with whatever's being represented or the nationality of the artist.

If nothing was known about this artist, this were the only piece of art by them we knew of, and this picture wasn't even uploaded to Pixiv, but another source without any otaku, Japanese, or subculture ties, would you have uploaded it? And would it be on topic?

Yes to both, because to me it's pretty clear that this picture was drawn in an asian style.

In any case I have no interest in starting a debate on the ontology of anime pictures on the internet so I'll leave the pointless arguing to someone else.

@chilled_sake on post #3268133 (donald trump (real life) drawn by chanta_(ayatakaoisii))

2018-09-27T04:37:08-04:00

nonamethanks said:

Since you're citing albert, forum #118000.

Hence it's not off-topic. Whether this picture is good enough is another matter entirely, but saying it's off-topic BECAUSE it's western style is just wrong.

Using the exact same standard you can say the image is off topic (which I am not). It's just wrong to say that because art may be conditionally accepted that it's just accepted. I'm scrutinizing the art, you are scrutinizing the art, by the standards set out I'm rejecting it's topicality. I fail to see what the relevance of the image is. I set out some possibilities but you haven't provided any basis for it being on topic, aside from the fact sometimes things are on topic (so?) or that he artist has other posts. It's also erroneous to even call this "western"-styled, or suggest that realistic = western, there are plenty of examples of eastern/Japanese realistic art, as seen by the searches you've pointed to including the realistic and real_life tags. From the composition of the image, we can tell that it's just a digital art piece, the only cultural ties are the medium (which is international given it can't be attributed to any particular culture, it was just produced using a computer, with heavy reliance on a photograph to the point of being a derivative work as indexador2 pointed out) and the subject, an American president.

What cultural references are represented here from either western or eastern culture? What makes this basic photo study significant? What's the point of admonishing the flagger, considering users are suggested to flag if they feel a work isn't on topic? Laying out what the scope is for considering what is and is not on topic doesn't make this on topic. Something doesn't become off topic BECAUSE of criteria, but rather it has to become on topic (hence, on).

nonamethanks said:
Whether this picture is good enough is another matter entirely

This just isn't accurate, image quality plays a pivotal role, actually, since the judgement of approvers is being deferred to. What basis is an approver supposed to just besides their subjective rating of an image's quality? I'm rejecting that this is either an eastern or western image to begin with. Withstanding that, either way it isn't of notable quality, especially not applying increased scrutiny; to say it's good enough shows that the level of scrutiny isn't any higher than normal. Notable or outstanding, not passable, better approaches the necessary quality.

chinatsu said:
Consider if this were the only picture known by this artist, the only item on their Pixiv, would it be on topic?

You also did not actually address this. If nothing was known about this artist, this were the only piece of art by them we knew of, and this picture wasn't even uploaded to Pixiv, but another source without any otaku, Japanese, or subculture ties, would you have uploaded it? And would it be on topic?

@nonamethanks on post #3268133 (donald trump (real life) drawn by chanta_(ayatakaoisii))

2018-09-27T03:08:59-04:00

chinatsu said:
Consider if this were the only picture known by this artist, the only item on their Pixiv, would it be on topic?

Since you're citing albert, forum #118000.

western-styled art is accepted but subject to more scrutiny

Hence it's not off-topic. Whether this picture is good enough is another matter entirely, but saying it's off-topic BECAUSE it's western style is just wrong.

@chilled_sake on post #3268133 (donald trump (real life) drawn by chanta_(ayatakaoisii))

2018-09-27T02:50:33-04:00

Drewko said:

...So what's the reason why you think that it's offtopic?
Like, sure you can say that "Well other posts does not matter!" but when these other posts clearly show that every logical reason to remove post simply are not a thing on Danbooru then you should clarify why you think something is offtopic.

For now is not offtopic because in fact, apparently realistic images of real people drawn by artists of various nations are completely ontopic and look, this is what this image is.

Being from various parts of the world isn't really relevant at all. I don't think flagging an image like this at all threatens the diversity of different artwork on the site, just in the view of the flagger which I share, the picture doesn't meet the standards of topicality or quality. The artist being 'Eastern' or 'Western' also has no salience. To paraphrase albert a bit, western artists can mimic eastern styles particularly well, as can eastern artists of western styles. What we even consider an easterner or western is also incredibly arbitrary considering people from one of these cultures can grow up or be educated in the other, or be multiracial or have multiple cultural upbringings, etc. To be sure, one's culture or race are not relevant for topicality, only the style and whether something has a cultural affinity with Japan. The image could be on topic for other reasons, but not their Japaneseness; immutable or deep cultural characteristics about an artist shouldn't change if their art is relevant.

As far as this image, the pattern of pictures by the artist before isn't relevant. Consider if this were the only picture known by this artist, the only item on their Pixiv, would it be on topic? That's a problem with arguing that the particular style of an artist is relevant. We were asked to consider the search chanta_(ayatakaoisii) -touhou for more examples by the artist, and I'm not seeing them there that aren't associated with otaku culture or eastern styles, save for a few like the Star Wars post which is of questionable topicality. Most there are actually distinctly anime-inspired with those stereotypical manga eyes.

What about this image associates it with Japanese culture? Pictures of politicians and celebrities are fine, if drawn in an eastern/Japanese style, what about this picture is styled in that manner? The eyes being ethnically Asian doesn't have relevance, you can certainly be an Asian American or Asian European, whatever they call it there. If those were big manga bug eyes sure. If everything about this image were the same, but it were of, say, Abe Shinzou, it would be more on topic for actually having to do with something ripped out of Japanese society. I'm not seeing anything in the picture associating it with Japan, the east, Japanese culture, society, anything. Except for the presumed race of the author, which should play no part in this assessment.

@Drewko on post #3268133 (donald trump (real life) drawn by chanta_(ayatakaoisii))

2018-09-27T02:01:27-04:00

chinatsu said:

Whether this post is off topic—I contend it is—has nothing to do with the other posts by an artist. Things aren't conditionally on-topic based on the style of the artist. Has nothing to do with the artist's 'race' or country, has nothing to do with the post being 'realistic' or not, images are judged on an individual level.

...So what's the reason why you think that it's offtopic?
Like, sure you can say that "Well other posts does not matter!" but when these other posts clearly show that every logical reason to remove post simply are not a thing on Danbooru then you should clarify why you think something is offtopic.

For now is not offtopic because in fact, apparently realistic images of real people drawn by artists of various nations are completely ontopic and look, this is what this image is.

@chilled_sake on post #3268133 (donald trump (real life) drawn by chanta_(ayatakaoisii))

2018-09-27T01:14:24-04:00

Whether this post is off topic—I contend it is—has nothing to do with the other posts by an artist. Things aren't conditionally on-topic based on the style of the artist. Has nothing to do with the artist's 'race' or country, has nothing to do with the post being 'realistic' or not, images are judged on an individual level.

@g3gen on post #3268133 (donald trump (real life) drawn by chanta_(ayatakaoisii))

2018-09-27T01:09:07-04:00

Danbooru accepts artists worldwide, not just Japanese. I posted a Bowsette image from a Colombian artist.

So seems like content in an anime-esque style is more the point.

@nonamethanks on post #3268133 (donald trump (real life) drawn by chanta_(ayatakaoisii))

2018-09-27T01:03:12-04:00

indexador2 said:

It's clearly not an "eastern" style in any way. It looks more like a picture of Donald Trump with some Photoshop filter applied to it.

Please refer to chanta_(ayatakaoisii) -touhou (far more examples can be found on his pixiv and twitter). The artist likes to draw western characters with slanted asian eyes. The only thing that could be considered western about this is the fact that it's being drawn in a realistic way. But then again we have 10k pictures under realistic (168 under real_life realistic).

@Saladofstones on post #3268133 (donald trump (real life) drawn by chanta_(ayatakaoisii))

2018-09-27T00:55:32-04:00

As has been said, it's not off-topic. The artist is Japanese. Things like post #1755253 and post #423022 are also fine since the artists.

@Drewko on post #3268133 (donald trump (real life) drawn by chanta_(ayatakaoisii))

2018-09-27T00:49:30-04:00

When the Bowsette mania is still strong.

Also, Chanta is a golden human being and great artist and i'll challenge people trying to take down this or other of their images.