Comments on post #3314448

@OmniGManJr on post #3314448 (akagi (azur lane) drawn by parka_(summersketch))

2019-05-28T23:44:46-04:00

alzack13 said:

For what it's worth, my complaints are exclusively from a narrative or realistic standpoint. Story's given us no reason to believe there are game mechanics at play.

This. If Shoukaku and Akagi are so powerful they can solo damn near all the Eagle Union ships (and Zuikaku is stronger than either one, and Atago can slice their bullets out of the air with contemptuous ease), then what is the point of even having the Eagle Union ships there? They essentially become a needless drain on resources if a single Sakura ship can outperform all of them.

It becomes a DragonBall issue. If the Saiyans/Sakura Empire girls are so strong, why do you even bother with the humans/Eagle Union girls. We are given no explanation for why the Sakura girls so massively outclass their contemporaries, or why said contemporaries are even there when they are so massively outclassed. It's bad writing. Just because lots of mangaka do it (see Bleach, Naruto, DBZ/DBS, etc.) is no justification.

He even missed a golden opportunity. Enterprise helping Akagi defeat them all and agreeing with Akagi's lines would have had a more realistic chance of causing Yorktown's freakout than Akagi's words alone.

@alzack13 on post #3314448 (akagi (azur lane) drawn by parka_(summersketch))

2018-11-23T04:41:21-05:00

StriderTuna said:

I think that's the issue: people thinking too much in term of actually in the game than in this artist's comics, where various things are clearly different. I believe that's the root of all the fuss: the inability to see things through a different lense than the game's.

For what it's worth, my complaints are exclusively from a narrative or realistic standpoint. Story's given us no reason to believe there are game mechanics at play.

@gathqwerty on post #3314448 (akagi (azur lane) drawn by parka_(summersketch))

2018-11-18T09:48:51-05:00

olou said:

Eagle Union ships in gameplay do seem among the weakest as another possible reasoning.

Eagle Union in gameplay has some good ships, but most of the Eagle Union drops are trash mobs.

dude, you may give people wrong impression about the Eagle Union with that, they have trash mobs but they still have many good and remarkable ships like Enterprise, Washington, North Carolina, South Dakota, Massachusetts, Arizona, Helena, Cleveland, Montpelier, Columbia, Denver, Phoenix, Honolulu, Sandy (yeah she's actually good despite all the meme), Witchia, Minneapolis, Portland, Chicago, Laffey, Nicholas, Hamman, Eldridge.... even Lexington, Saratoga, Ranger still have good stats and usable for many situation. Hell I can pretty sure that the number of their good ship are no less than their Sakura counterpart in the game

@StriderTuna on post #3314448 (akagi (azur lane) drawn by parka_(summersketch))

2018-11-18T07:11:32-05:00

-Z- said:

roon is an actually OP bote ingame, and as a "special plan" ship she's anything but starter. sandy's the AA queen long before the remodel she just got within the last couple months... but sadly that AA was largely wasted due to game flow and people's tendancy to judge based on autopilot performance for anyone but the most absurd hitters (such as ayanami kai). the remodel just generally makes her go from "treat like a destroyer with bad fuel economy and play on manual or do not use" to "wtf why is she so good she didn't do anything" kinda like tirpitz.

I think that's the issue: people thinking too much in term of actually in the game than in this artist's comics, where various things are clearly different. I believe that's the root of all the fuss: the inability to see things through a different lense than the game's.

@-Z- on post #3314448 (akagi (azur lane) drawn by parka_(summersketch))

2018-11-18T00:56:04-05:00

asilentharmony said:

Akagi took out Roon 1v1, who appears to be the "starter ship" of sorts and closest to the commander. Typically in these stories those girls are among the strongest (though there's no true evidence of that).

Also everyone talks about San Diego being the AA queen, but here it appears she's still in her base skin, and really her AA goes truly nuts after retrofit.

roon is an actually OP bote ingame, and as a "special plan" ship she's anything but starter. sandy's the AA queen long before the remodel she just got within the last couple months... but sadly that AA was largely wasted due to game flow and people's tendancy to judge based on autopilot performance for anyone but the most absurd hitters (such as ayanami kai). the remodel just generally makes her go from "treat like a destroyer with bad fuel economy and play on manual or do not use" to "wtf why is she so good she didn't do anything" kinda like tirpitz.

@Reynald2708 on post #3314448 (akagi (azur lane) drawn by parka_(summersketch))

2018-11-17T10:22:43-05:00

asilentharmony said:

Too bad Yandere Akagi's basically canon. It appears in this series all of her Yan escaped and was absorbed by roughly 80% of this base.

No, Akagi might be Yandere but if you read her character story, it is not a surprise she can be this wise.

If you haven't, I would recommend you to read the red spider lily then, Akagi is not your typical Yandere, she is a great Yandere.

@Kashira on post #3314448 (akagi (azur lane) drawn by parka_(summersketch))

2018-11-16T11:34:34-05:00

AzurLonemark said:

You dont see this kind of Akagi everyday, 10/10 the kind of Akagi i want than being Full Yandere.

I second that.

@alzack13 on post #3314448 (akagi (azur lane) drawn by parka_(summersketch))

2018-11-15T16:41:30-05:00

BestBattleshipFusou said:

Can we just enjoy the badasstery of both side instead of going into silly IJN lost the war so they must be weak and scream ANTI USN BIAS just because USN is currently beaten up by the Akagi.

This could be just the author ranking the girls based on his actual girls level where girls like akagi is just overleveled he liked her

No one said anything about the IJN needing to be weak, nor are most people actually claiming there's a specific anti-USN bias. The problem is that it's pretty clear that the author is writing this to make the IJN ships ludicrously strong in comparison to others. Which is their prerogative, but it makes the narrative hard to actually care about. Why invest in a narrative when its progression relies on personal whims? If you want a better explanation of this maybe go and actually read some of the earlier comments instead of apparently skimming one or two, I think it's been outlined fairly well.

@olou on post #3314448 (akagi (azur lane) drawn by parka_(summersketch))

2018-11-15T14:17:51-05:00

BestBattleshipFusou said:

Can we just enjoy the badasstery of both side instead of going into silly IJN lost the war so they must be weak and scream ANTI USN BIAS just because USN is currently beaten up by the Akagi.

This could be just the author ranking the girls based on his actual girls level where girls like akagi is just overleveled he liked her

That is a possibility. It could be based on the levels of the author or other things, but as I said before, it doesn't really matter as long as the story is entertaining imo. At least for me.

Also I don't think anyone here has said Sakura Empire 'IJN' ships must be weak.
Doing an IRL comparison, many did perform as some of the best ships in the world for some time, at least in some specific field. But even the best ship in the world at the time with the best crew couldn't take on entire fleets of the worst ships alone, and some people were also surprised the USN ships were much, much weaker then other ships. I think that's why its surprised people. Not slightly weaker on a one to one basis, but much weaker on a one to fleet basis even.

Doing a comparison to IRL ships, this event is impossible, if only because a ship would run out of ammo before they accomplished something like this even if they performed perfectly.

Doing a gameplay comparison, this is also nearly impossible, since a solo ship would get ripped apart in game by a fleet.

However, the manga isn't a game or IRL, so it doesn't need to follow those expectations, though the audience is also free to dislike it. People will have different tastes and opinions.

A level difference is a possible explanation, but levels haven't been mentioned in this manga yet, so I feel it isn't a direct abstraction to game mechanics, like how soldiers and sailors IRL don't have clear 'levels'.

Another possible explanation that I favor is Siren enhancement in the story favoring other factions.

Eagle Union ships in gameplay do seem among the weakest as another possible reasoning.
USS Wasp is the only 2 star carrier, and the worst in all stats. Yorktown in game doesn't have a great stat line or skills as well, and neither does Hornet.
Langley is the worst escort carrier in stats in the game, and Eagle Union escort carriers in general are the worst overall.
Vestal is a worse repair ship then Akashi, especially when gear is involved.
Fletcher class ships have among the worst stat distributions in the game, but in exchange are common, easy to make and find on map drops, and about the lowest cost ships in the game. Again possible indication of lack or rarer Siren tech. Though ironically, some older less advanced destroyers (including Eagle Union destroyers, not just destroyers from other nations) have better stats then them. I wonder if that means, in lore, that the Fletchers in Azur Lane universe are an earlier design then they were in real life, or perhaps were simply designed poorly due to having less Siren resources later on.
Eagle Union also makes up most of the worst low tier battleships and cruisers as well, in gameplay terms because they're initial map drops, though the game mechanics could be tied to lore as well.

Eagle Union in gameplay has some good ships, but most of the Eagle Union drops are trash mobs.
Other factions have some trash mobs, but Eagle Union has by far the most.
Nevada and Oklahoma for example are early starter ships that are easy to obtain and level, but quickly outpaced. Their kai upgraded refit forms perform worse then many other ships base forms, including ships older then them, at least by IRL construction dates.

I always interpreted it as Eagle Union ships, not being less skilled or worse designed by the Eagles, but as having less Siren tech in them.
The hero faction seems to have a harder time getting Siren tech, so is less able to enhance their ships as much.

I wonder how in lore, if they'll explain why some ships are stronger then others outright. Maybe when the anime comes out.
I wonder if any of the theory will be right.

If it is the Siren tech theory, I wonder how the factions pick which ship to enhance. Some of the high tier ships aren't that famous or weren't technically advanced ships IRL (of the Eagle Union and other factions), and some low tier ships were technically advanced, well crewed, accomplished, and famous ships.
It could also be that the Chinese history books the devs of Azur Lane referenced, or the individual preferences of the AL devs are different from what some expect.
I have a British friend who would list a very different list of famous ships then what a French friend would list. And even between British friends, one individual might list an entirely different list from another, and have no idea of some ships on the other's list.

And the ships reference IRL history events too, but that might just be a meta joke.

BestBattleshipFusou said:

Can we just enjoy the badasstery of both side

For enjoy the 'badassery' of both sides, this is hard for some it seems.
I think this is because, the USN fleet isn't really badass. None of their ships have done anything notable, except get beat up.
It's like asking people to join the 'badassery' of a goon in a James Bond film or a mook in Call of Duty who gets quickly dropped. Most audience members would be impress at the protagonist, and less so of the goon.

That's simply because the 'USN' or Eagle Union isn't the focus in this manga. They don't get much screentime, and what focus and time they do get, they spend it talking about side things or losing.

But I feel that's okay too. Not everyone needs to be badass in a story, and every story has limited space and time so an author needs to decide what they need to focus on.

@BestBattleshipFusou on post #3314448 (akagi (azur lane) drawn by parka_(summersketch))

2018-11-15T12:22:40-05:00

Can we just enjoy the badasstery of both side instead of going into silly IJN lost the war so they must be weak and scream ANTI USN BIAS just because USN is currently beaten up by the Akagi.

This could be just the author ranking the girls based on his actual girls level where girls like akagi is just overleveled he liked her

@olou on post #3314448 (akagi (azur lane) drawn by parka_(summersketch))

2018-11-14T23:58:38-05:00

StriderTuna said:

I get the feeling the japanese ships in general had more development and as a result a greater strength, though as if some, like Atago it's not always a good thing. Also there's the matter of seemingly the admiral having japanese ships first unlike AL players. The personalites as it were have diverged greatly from AL norms (Yorktown being the fearsome sister being a thing, being unyielding to even Enterprise)

The bulk of american ships from what I've seen have mainly gained no development or bad development (like the increasing insanity), perhaps as a result of embracing "Justice" so readily without deeper meaning. Enterprise due to her time around Sakura ships/etc has seems to have wound up opening up/moving away from her normal stoic state, but even she can't do much against old grudges and solidifed self-righteousness.

Akagi has shown a great deal of development (in part for Zuikaku curb stomping her) from her usual self; becoming someone nicer and who wants to help others previously like her. The thing with Shoukaku shows that she tried to help her with things.

Shoukaku's performance was likely a result of being resolved to suicidal extents in the defense of her sister and comrades.

Zuikaku is a big unknown beyond being the strongest ship with perhaps her goofy demeanor a coping mechanism. Her being around on the boat will likely result in her doing something soon.

Atago has always had a bit of yan normally but with her sister biting it and the last wish mixed with her feelings, it has become a strength giving insanity. For all the talk of USN anti-bias, it's a japanese ship that seems the closest to a real villain (assuming there wasn't something Siren related gaslighting all these ships). For all her cunning she seems to have overlooked the wild card that is Zuikaku (but I doubt she's aware of her true strength as she seems a more recent addition to the base than Akagi/etc)

I agree Atago seems like the main villain currently, but I'm not sure if she will stay that way. She seems like she's probably going to be redeemed, similar to how Akagi seemed crazy at first but now seems like the main hero, who is doing main character hero actions and getting most of the screen time.
At first I thought Zuikaku would be the main IJN ship hero MC, but now it seems Akagi is the MC for this arc.

I do agree however she's the most villainous character with the most consistent and villainous actions, and shows up a lot compared to most other ships.

I also agree the perception of 'anti-USN bias' is also likely due to a desire to focus on the Japanese ships. Atago and Akagi are currently the biggest players with the most narrative focus in tone currently. The admiral is a bit of a passive damsel is distress to be saved, and the other ships are more minor side characters now, but may get more focus later, or not depending on how the story goes.
IJN ship is the villain currently, and IJN is the hero.

So far it seems interesting to me. Akagi going from a villain in her first appearance to a more MC role, Atago staying a villain so far. I wonder if any of the more minor characters will make an appearance. All the rest of the yandere fleet seem like more minor villains thus far like Jun'you, Unicorn, the USN fleet. These are all more minor characters with less focus currently.

Though Hyuuga and Ise seem relatively sane and also able to make Atago back down.

Currently the IJN ships have the most narrative focus as well on the hero, villain, and side character side, which makes sense as the author is Japanese so most of their interest and knowledge will likely be on these ships. This doesn't necessarily mean he or she dislikes the other ships, just that they are more interested in the Japanese ones.
It would be very unlikely to have a Japanese artist most interested in non-Japanese ships, but not impossible. There have been a few art comics and doujin mangas posted on this site with non-IJN focus, though it is rarer and less probable.

StriderTuna said:
For all her cunning she seems to have overlooked the wild card that is Zuikaku (but I doubt she's aware of her true strength as she seems a more recent addition to the base than Akagi/etc)

Akagi could have been wrong in her estimates and Zuikaku might not be the strongest ship.

Also, Zuikaku isn't a more recent addition to the base. Akagi said when she first came to the base, she got into a fight and lost to Zuikaku. So it seems Zui was there already.

'Power levels' seem to be from current knowledge Zui > Akagi > Roon > USN Fleet

I'd rank Roon above the USN since Roon actually managed to knock out and cripple Akagi even if Roon got even more injured. Roon got a sort of mutual KO. The USN group didn't manage to injure an already injured Akagi, and all got sunk, so performed worse then Roon did.
Ironblood also is described in game descriptions as being extremely Siren enhanced and the most advanced in naval and all other technology so it makes sense for her to be so tough. Though it also makes sense for Akagi to be stronger. Ironblood is called the most advanced, but IRL Imperial Japan was way ahead of Nazi Germany in naval tech despite the 'German tech is the best in the world' memes (Though Germany was ahead of Japan in tank tech, but not ahead in all tech). There's other potential reasons and justifications the author could use, but honestly the reason don't matter much as long as the narrative is good.

Atago is separate. I'm not sure how she compares to Akagi, Roon, and Zui, but she beat Montpelier, is implied to have beaten Cleveland, and beat Ikazuchi and Inazuma as well.

So Atago > Montpelier currently definitely since it seems she easily won.
I'm less sure of Atago > Ikazuchi and Inazuma at the same time. She did beat both of them, but she also ambushed them and got a first strike in.

@asiangamer413 on post #3314448 (akagi (azur lane) drawn by parka_(summersketch))

2018-11-14T23:40:57-05:00

Nice to see that I’m not the only one who thinks that it’s bullshit that Shoukaku alone wrecked an entire fleet

@StriderTuna on post #3314448 (akagi (azur lane) drawn by parka_(summersketch))

2018-11-13T00:13:22-05:00

I get the feeling the japanese ships in general had more development and as a result a greater strength, though as if some, like Atago it's not always a good thing. Also there's the matter of seemingly the admiral having japanese ships first unlike AL players. The personalites as it were have diverged greatly from AL norms (Yorktown being the fearsome sister being a thing, being unyielding to even Enterprise)

The bulk of american ships from what I've seen have mainly gained no development or bad development (like the increasing insanity), perhaps as a result of embracing "Justice" so readily without deeper meaning. Enterprise due to her time around Sakura ships/etc has seems to have wound up opening up/moving away from her normal stoic state, but even she can't do much against old grudges and solidifed self-righteousness.

Akagi has shown a great deal of development (in part for Zuikaku curb stomping her) from her usual self; becoming someone nicer and who wants to help others previously like her. The thing with Shoukaku shows that she tried to help her with things.

Shoukaku's performance was likely a result of being resolved to suicidal extents in the defense of her sister and comrades.

Zuikaku is a big unknown beyond being the strongest ship with perhaps her goofy demeanor a coping mechanism. Her being around on the boat will likely result in her doing something soon.

Atago has always had a bit of yan normally but with her sister biting it and the last wish mixed with her feelings, it has become a strength giving insanity. For all the talk of USN anti-bias, it's a japanese ship that seems the closest to a real villain (assuming there wasn't something Siren related gaslighting all these ships). For all her cunning she seems to have overlooked the wild card that is Zuikaku (but I doubt she's aware of her true strength as she seems a more recent addition to the base than Akagi/etc)

@NWSiaCB on post #3314448 (akagi (azur lane) drawn by parka_(summersketch))

2018-11-12T22:30:11-05:00

Unlucky.Dice said:

C’mon dudes, can’t we just enjoy the story as it is?

Not that I particularly want to wade into this one, but some people can't really fully enjoy a story without discussing it with others. The more a story gets to them emotionally, the more they want to express it.

Personally, I just stopped reading this one (except for maybe parts with Zuikaku in it) after the part with RaiDen because I don't know much about AL, and I don't want the only thing I know about it to be watching DesDiv 6 senselessly get chopped to gibblets... AGAIN.

@alzack13 on post #3314448 (akagi (azur lane) drawn by parka_(summersketch))

2018-11-12T22:17:18-05:00

Unlucky.Dice said:

C’mon dudes, can’t we just enjoy the story as it is?

Complacency breeds mediocrity

@tehlaziboi on post #3314448 (akagi (azur lane) drawn by parka_(summersketch))

2018-11-12T21:54:15-05:00

What story? The very first page of this "series" has Roon about to murder two destroyers with zero backstory. Then it's just more and more shipgirls snapping and going apeshit on one another again for little to no reason. The author has his appeals, which is drawing crazy bitches that make dramatic poses and/or dramatic lines. But this isn't a story.

@Unlucky.Dice on post #3314448 (akagi (azur lane) drawn by parka_(summersketch))

2018-11-12T21:29:50-05:00

C’mon dudes, can’t we just enjoy the story as it is?

@Zemeritt on post #3314448 (akagi (azur lane) drawn by parka_(summersketch))

2018-11-12T18:31:50-05:00

asilentharmony said:
To this point the only true anti-USN bias you could point to would be the fact that Indy's the only confirmed death and this recent battle, which again we have no idea how strong/weak the USN ships involved are.

Isn't Takao dead too?

@Searchwanted on post #3314448 (akagi (azur lane) drawn by parka_(summersketch))

2018-11-12T09:14:53-05:00

Bad end is the only end

@NNescio on post #3314448 (akagi (azur lane) drawn by parka_(summersketch))

2018-11-12T05:27:28-05:00

alzack13 said:

Well at least Akagi isn't in a murderous rage here, but it does look like Shoukaku and then Akagi did, in fact, take on the entire present Eagle Union fleet on their own, which is absolutely hilarious. Oh well, Narratives need drama and the IJN are the stronkest as per usual.

I do enjoy what they're doing with Yorktown tho, just wish they didn't set it up with such ridiculous odds.

~~Russian~~ Japanese bias.

alzack13 said:

Yeah I don't think it's a case of the artist hating the USN, it feels more like they just want the IJN ships to be clearly stronger. Same shit you see in anime, same shit you see in American war movies, etc etc. It just feels especially bad in this case because of the level of absurdity. Single carrier with no escorts holds off fleet of CLs, CA, CVs, and BB. Single carrier with no escorts then comes and defeats that entire fleet. All of this with Sandy frontlining, who was irl and in-game basically just a billion AA guns put on a ship (a role in which she excelled at even before her retrofit, mind you).

I understand that this is all for drama, and like I said, I do genuinely enjoy the character stuff going on with Yorktown. Common and perhaps realistic American stereotype is that we always see ourselves on the side of justice beating up the bad guys, and in her case that's all she can think to do (and makes up her identity, apparently.) But if you want me to be properly invested in your narrative you have to at least try to maintain the suspense of disbelief.

Or alternatively, Inverse Ninja Law.

But yeah, this really stretches suspension of disbelief.