Uploader and Approver Complaints on Low Quality Images

@albert: I will be migrating most of the existing...

2015-07-06T18:32:48-04:00

I will be migrating most of the existing janitors to moderator, but obviously I won't do that automatically. If you have reservations about any of the janitors getting promoted let me know privately.

@Log: I'm pretty sure toks didn't mean test janitor...

2015-07-02T01:53:54-04:00

I'm pretty sure toks didn't mean test janitor -> moderator. That upgrade is most likely going to be people who have been janitors for 3+ years.

@OOZ662: > Toks said: > > If one wants to retain...

2015-07-01T18:15:38-04:00

Toks said:

If one wants to retain moderator abilities they should probably PM Albert at some point and ask to be promoted to moderator.

Having just been promoted it'd feel really weird to immediately ask for another upgrade...

@tapnek: > Toks said: > > If one wants to retain...

2015-06-30T23:16:26-04:00

Toks said:

If one wants to retain moderator abilities they should probably PM Albert at some point and ask to be promoted to moderator.

Hopefully, there will be a dmail sent to all janitors about losing most of their privileges and giving the opportunity to become a moderator to gain them back.

@Type-kun: Though, looking at the commit more closely, it...

2015-06-30T12:56:54-04:00

Though, looking at the commit more closely, it seems the user level itself will stay for now, but it'll be pretty much the same as "Contributor" for now; all current janitors and upper get ability to approve posts automatically. I guess users will be moved on case-by-case basis manually, but better wait for Albert about that.

@Toks: > Wypatroszony said: > > Strange. Wonder where...

2015-06-30T12:56:05-04:00

Wypatroszony said:

Strange. Wonder where will people end up when they actually were contributors prior to Janitorship. What will decide whether they are moved onto the step higher or lower?

With the way it's currently coded users that are currently janitor or higher will retain the ability to approve posts. Janitors will keep their level listed as "Janitor" but will lose most of their moderation abilities (deleting wikis, deleting pools, etc).

If one wants to retain moderator abilities they should probably PM Albert at some point and ask to be promoted to moderator.

@Wypatroszony: Strange. Wonder where will people end up when...

2015-06-30T12:45:13-04:00

Strange. Wonder where will people end up when they actually were contributors prior to Janitorship. What will decide whether they are moved onto the step higher or lower?

@Type-kun: FYI it seems that the Janitor user level will...

2015-06-30T12:41:23-04:00

FYI it seems that the Janitor user level will be removed with next update (issue #2417). Ability to approve posts is now separated from user level entirely, most of janitor+ options are now mod+.

@Apollyon: I've stickied this and the "Improving mod...

2015-06-20T12:55:57-04:00

I've stickied this and the "Improving mod queue" thread at forum #105366 for convenience, and for having discussion important to the site.

z905844 said:

If keeping both my combined contributor and janitor position means that i have to go beyond my usual comfort zone (to basically scream at someone and so on- i can write either a single sentence reason why i don't like a post or a goddamned essay about it but that's simply too much) and in the case of richie's suggestion of removing the contributor position to all below janitor and moving it to a tier second only to mods (btw, i got to contrib first before i applied for janitor by simply following the "uploading what you like" rule. ) and making a multi-person approval system, we are going into run into multiple issues which might just tear the site asunder.

This does add more complication than it seems necessary. I don't think moving Contributor up that many rungs is really needed.

I was also invited to Contributor first (I posted things someone liked, then I got upgraded) before I applied to be a Janitor later on. I assume that's the same for most of the current set of Janitors. So in the case of that user level, if they weren't Contributor before being accepted as a Janitor, than the Contributor status could be treated as toggled off, where their uploads could still be subject to approval. But even then, that idea feels like too much of a change.

@NWSiaCB: > Log said: > > Let's not create a witchhunt...

2015-06-19T19:11:16-04:00

Log said:

Let's not create a witchhunt to figure out which janitor did which worrying thing. Don't post whatever you found.

Honestly I'm fine with splitting off approvals from ranks because the current system of giving everyone who wants to approve posts a bump straight to contributor is kind of weird.

Give the actual janitor position to the handful of people who want to deal with pools/wiki deletions, post ban/unbans, lock/unlock categories, deleting forum posts, locking/unlocking wiki pages and whose uploads were of contributor quality. Maybe PM all the current janitors and see who wants this new role, purging the rest but giving them access to approvals. Maybe a dual-role category on the profile page (ie. builder, approver) so we can still see who can just approve and who has responsibilities beyond that.

Just to back what z905844 said, you could just file the serial numbers off. (That is, anonymize the data.)

I've already stated that I would expect the correlation between art quality and score is likely to be weak, so it would be more of interest to see how much this might be the case. They wouldn't necessarily be a "bad janitor" if they only approve low-scoring or high-scoring works, anyway, if we take it that score is a weak indicator of quality to begin with.

@v571866: > Log said: > > Let's not create a witchhunt...

2015-06-19T10:41:57-04:00

Log said:

Let's not create a witchhunt to figure out which janitor did which worrying thing. Don't post whatever you found.

I'm more of looking of the statistics point of view really.

To be honest I feel that i'm one of the more underperforming janitors of the site as of late, probably because i keep following the primary rule in approving, which is "approve what you like".

If keeping both my combined contributor and janitor position means that i have to go beyond my usual comfort zone (to basically scream at someone and so on- i can write either a single sentence reason why i don't like a post or a goddamned essay about it but that's simply too much) and in the case of richie's suggestion of removing the contributor position to all below janitor and moving it to a tier second only to mods (btw, i got to contrib first before i applied for janitor by simply following the "uploading what you like" rule. ) and making a multi-person approval system, we are going into run into multiple issues which might just tear the site asunder.

@richie: > OOZ662 said: > > Seems weirder to me that...

2015-06-19T08:11:38-04:00

OOZ662 said:

Seems weirder to me that someone tasked with choosing images worthy of the site wouldn't be trusted to upload images worthy of the site...but, again, it doesn't really matter I suppose.

As a matter of fact it's much weirder to make someone trusted enough to accept their own uploads while not having privilege of doing it with others.
This leads to such absurds like as contributors rejected appeals (how do you interpret the fact that a contributor has unsuccesfully appealed someone else post?). The case of deleted posts yet fav'd by contributor is similar (if this was only uploaded by that contributor then...?) Which again leads to absurd strategy of deliberate ommiting an upload(s) if you really want to have it accepted here (counting that friendly contrib+ will come and do it by himself).

Seriously, let's face it - most people are biased with their own uploads. Of course, it's not that kind of caliber as with uploading their own arts, but still. Most of us simply prefer to uploading what we like, at least copyrights we already know and it's making our quality judgment clouded. Sometimes even *very* clouded. Yet, for unknown reasons it's much easier to earn priviledge for accepting only your own posts than accepting uploads of others. For me, the privilege of (auto)accepting own posts should be the very final one, and awarded automatically only to very highest tier of proved users here. For owner obviously (duh) and for admin - mostly because I can't imagine jxh posting some kind of shit. As for mods I wouldn't be so sure. And definitely not for janitors.

As for simple users who prove trusty enough with their own uploads they should be awarded by promotion to some kind of pre-janitor level instead of contributors. This level (let's call it for now Approver) would have only power to accept posts in queue (not appealed ones). Of course still all except their owns. If someone is really worried about them then we could take into consideration the two person approval idea here - one full fledged janitor or two approvers to make post accepted.

BTW, Wypatroszony - you may consider this post as an answer for your previous question

Serve me an advice that prevents him approving doubtful flagged posts that were NOT approved by him prior to flag (contributor posts, mainly), then we'll talk.

@OOZ662: > Log said: > > Let's not create a witchhunt...

2015-06-19T06:11:54-04:00

Log said:

Let's not create a witchhunt to figure out which janitor did which worrying thing. Don't post whatever you found.

Odd that you say that...I figured it was a trend more than one person causing worry, but that's less fun too. I'm curious as to what it was but it probably doesn't matter below Moderator level.

Log said:

Honestly I'm fine with splitting off approvals from ranks because the current system of giving everyone who wants to approve posts a bump straight to contributor is kind of weird.

Seems weirder to me that someone tasked with choosing images worthy of the site wouldn't be trusted to upload images worthy of the site...but, again, it doesn't really matter I suppose.

@Log: Let's not create a witchhunt to figure out...

2015-06-19T05:59:42-04:00

Let's not create a witchhunt to figure out which janitor did which worrying thing. Don't post whatever you found.

Honestly I'm fine with splitting off approvals from ranks because the current system of giving everyone who wants to approve posts a bump straight to contributor is kind of weird.

Give the actual janitor position to the handful of people who want to deal with pools/wiki deletions, post ban/unbans, lock/unlock categories, deleting forum posts, locking/unlocking wiki pages and whose uploads were of contributor quality. Maybe PM all the current janitors and see who wants this new role, purging the rest but giving them access to approvals. Maybe a dual-role category on the profile page (ie. builder, approver) so we can still see who can just approve and who has responsibilities beyond that.

@v571866: Please relay what you found out from the data...

2015-06-19T04:02:53-04:00

Please relay what you found out from the data you have collected.

@albert: Janitor trials were a manual process and I...

2015-06-19T01:44:20-04:00

Janitor trials were a manual process and I tended to forget about them. The aim of the automated system is to hopefully introduce a steady stream of new blood.

If you want to nominate someone just suggest to them to message me.

The report reveals some interesting data. I'm a bit scared to act on it. Maybe it's a good idea to separate approval authorization into a role independent from user level.

@Lunatic6: I just wonder if we can nominate other users to...

2015-06-19T00:23:36-04:00

I just wonder if we can nominate other users to become Janitors.

@Toks: > Type-kun said: > > What's with those...

2015-06-18T13:34:00-04:00

Type-kun said:

What's with those promote/demote links, though? Thankfully those don't work, but still, is that another caching issue, like issue #2156?

The ones on the report are a caching bug, though the ones on the /janitor_trials page just appear for everyone.

@Type-kun: What's with those promote/demote links, though?...

2015-06-18T13:28:24-04:00

What's with those promote/demote links, though? Thankfully those don't work, but still, is that another caching issue, like issue #2156?

@Astolfo: > Toks said: > > Albert said a few days ago...

2015-06-18T13:17:38-04:00

Toks said:

Albert said a few days ago he's satisfied with the current janitors.

Oh right, gotcha.