Post relationships on pictures with different sources and resolutions

@Mikaeri: Good catch.

2017-02-28T16:45:49-05:00

Good catch.

@user_445173: Updated help:post relationships to include the...

2017-02-28T16:40:59-05:00

Updated help:post relationships to include the parenting criteria for upscaled and third party detexted posts.

@user_460797: > EB said: > > On the points of "Highest...

2017-02-28T15:59:19-05:00

EB said:

On the points of "Highest resolution" and "Cleanest", there is no mention of upscaled or (third party) detexted versions. I sometimes see those posts parented, but in my opinion, they should not be. Is there agreement on that?

Yes.

@EB: On the points of "Highest resolution" and...

2017-02-28T15:58:45-05:00

On the points of "Highest resolution" and "Cleanest", there is no mention of upscaled or (third party) detexted versions. I sometimes see those posts parented, but in my opinion, they should not be. Is there agreement on that?

@Mikaeri: It is policy not to delete duplicates. There is...

2017-02-28T05:19:49-05:00

It is policy not to delete duplicates. There is ample reason for this, but the most important one being uploader health. If such a policy were enacted, Twitter would practically be a lava zone for uploads.

There was a former moderator by the name rantuyetmai (user #288549) that actually deleted duplicates right off the server even when he had absolutely no permission to by albert or any other admin -- and that's why the permissions are revised to be what they are now.

Anyways, there's more as to why, but it's pretty much a bad idea, mostly because even images from different sources can have different information. The 'best' image isn't always the one with the best resolution, and neither is it with the best file format, the least visible artifacting, the most recent... etc. Take post #2633900 and post #2643602 that I've mentioned before -- there's no way of telling which one is the better one. Maybe one has more artifacts than another, but they're so similar pixel-wise the difference is practically nil (and perhaps it could even be a difference on the compression level)

And as to why image samples are flagged and deleted, you can read topic #13646 and the relevant wiki pages.

@user_445173: > Claverhouse said: > > Or even, utterly...

2017-02-28T04:40:34-05:00

Claverhouse said:

Or even, utterly identical duplicates could be chucked out as wastes of space...

Sure, we could only keep the highest quality picture in case there's one or more identical ones around and delete the rest.
howto:upload also has a section about duplicates:

Check for Duplicates

Be sure that your post has not been uploaded by someone else. When uploading an image, use the find similar button to find images which are visually identical to your upload.

If your image has already been uploaded, only upload if you have a higher quality copy. Once you have uploaded your higher quality copy, set all existing copies of the image as child posts of your copy.

On the other hand, though, the duplicate wiki entry states that just "being a duplicate" is not a reason to flag a post.

Anyways, the best course of action to prevent those "wastes of space" as you say, would be only uploading said identical posts in case of them being a revision, or of better quality than the already uploaded one (less artifacting, better file format...) by using the Find Similar function and checking the versions that are already posted and the one we have.

And while using said function is a must to avoid exact duplicates, especially from the same source (except when we know they're revisions and such), I personally think if they have different sources, identical duplicates should stay.

I respect and understand your point of view on this, though.

@Claverhouse: Or even, utterly identical duplicates could be...

2017-02-28T04:02:33-05:00

Or even, utterly identical duplicates could be chucked out as wastes of space...

@CodeKyuubi: I only parent a pixiv image to a...

2017-02-28T00:47:53-05:00

I only parent a pixiv image to a high-resolution twitter image if the pixiv version is not highres and the twitter image is at or around absurdres.

@Qpax: My usual priorty always comes with pixiv as...

2017-02-28T00:08:03-05:00

My usual priorty always comes with pixiv as main parent though just like seen my recent post #2643834 and post #2643833

I don't know why but it feels always feel inferior to upload pictures from twitter as long as their file format is not png or at least for me (if you compare these two, pixiv one looks more vivid and clean). There are some cases where artist usually deletes their works from their twitter account so its better to have more solid source for main parent such as making pixiv upload as main parent. However and lastly I'm also comparing two posts and if the picture have higher resulotion as well as bigger file size then I prefer to make these kind of pictures main post.

@user_445173: > Mikaeri said: > > Alright, noted. > > By...

2017-02-27T18:34:24-05:00

Mikaeri said:

Alright, noted.

By the way, revised the some of the relevant information here. Feel free to elaborate if there's anything that could be missing.

@Kilias Does that help you?

Yes. I only had the doubt I mentioned above, and that really did help. Thank you!

@BrokenEagle98: > evazion said: > > Yeah, already moved them....

2017-02-27T18:32:34-05:00

evazion said:

Yeah, already moved them. If you go to /wiki_pages/search and search for bodies of `*[[*howto:whatever*]]*`, that should find all pages linking to a given page.

Yes, though do pay mind to the space/underscore interchangeability for wiki links.

Example:

Those all link to the same wiki page.

However, the search for *[[*List of airplanes*]]* will only find links matching the first example.

Replacing spaces/underscores with *'s is workable, but it can generate false positives. An example is a search for *[[List*of*birds*]]*, where you will find two matches but there is actually none.

@evazion: Yeah, already moved them. If you go to...

2017-02-27T18:04:54-05:00

Yeah, already moved them. If you go to /wiki_pages/search and search for bodies of `*[[*howto:whatever*]]*`, that should find all pages linking to a given page.

@Mikaeri: Alright, noted. By the way, revised the some...

2017-02-27T18:03:07-05:00

Alright, noted.

By the way, revised the some of the relevant information here. Feel free to elaborate if there's anything that could be missing.

@Kilias Does that help you?

@BrokenEagle98: Reverse-links to the old howto:post...

2017-02-27T17:59:31-05:00

Reverse-links to the old howto:post relationships:

list_of_meta-wikis, help:post_relationships, help:toc, help:home

Edit:

...and looks like they've all already been taken care of.

@Mikaeri: It doesn't really matter for identical images,...

2017-02-27T17:52:14-05:00

It doesn't really matter for identical images, just as long as they're parented in some way.

I'll take EB's note about lossy-lossless into consideration, but the post ordering could use a small revision.

By the way, since howto:post_relationships was deleted, and I'm not sure if this has already happened, can we make sure that all wiki pages that link there link to help:post_relationships instead? There's probably a way to search it.

@EB: My priority is pretty much the same as Mikaeri....

2017-02-27T17:31:26-05:00

My priority is pretty much the same as Mikaeri. I would put 3 above 2, considering the rare cases where a PNG file may be lossy-lossless.

@BrokenEagle98: Help:Post Relationships has a good guideline. ...

2017-02-27T17:30:54-05:00

Help:Post Relationships has a good guideline.

For identical images, does it really matter? Just pick one... :/

@Mikaeri: Nah, no problem. As long as we're able to...

2017-02-27T15:57:57-05:00

Nah, no problem. As long as we're able to discuss it somewhere, all is well.

I might've mentioned my opinion before but this is my priority for parenting images:

1. Most recent revision
2. Better file format (png > jpg)
3. Less artifacting (post #2626407 and its parent)
4. Higher resolution
5. Whatever post is still live (post #2613788, post #2227073)
6. If you can't tell, whatever came first I guess: post #2633900 vs. post #2643602

We don't have very specific guidelines for the priority of parenting images that are identical, but perhaps this is the chance to clear some of that up.

@user_445173: I found that there's a few artists who post...

2017-02-27T15:53:23-05:00

I found that there's a few artists who post some of their pictures in their Twitter with a larger resolution than their Pixiv counterparts (Neki (Wakiko) and Yomu (Sgt Epper) for example); and I see there may be valid reasons to make either of them the parent post, but I'm not sure which one should be it.

Personally, I think the Pixiv version of a picture generally should be the parent in case they're the same, but the Twitter versions by these two artists in particular are absurdres and if we compare them to their Pixiv counterparts, the Pixiv ones have lower resolution. Like post #2594647, post #2600294, post #2630931 and post #2630933, to mention some.

And so, I want to ask something. In the case of having two posts with different sources which are the same picture, but the Pixiv one has lower resolution than the other (said second source can be anywhere the artist posted it, doesn't have to only be Twitter), which one should be the parent?

@Mikaeri gave me the idea of asking about this issue in the forum when I asked them about the parent-child relationship on post #2639668.
(I apologize if you were about to create this same topic, Mikaeri)