Tag Alias: just_as_planned

@葉月: > 0xCCBA696 said: > Then I request implication...

2009-01-13T00:24:48-05:00

0xCCBA696 said:
Then I request implication balsamic_vinegar --> caramelldansen.

Thank you for your valuable and useful input.

@0xCCBA696: > 葉月 said: > It's misheard lyrics of the song,...

2009-01-12T17:45:28-05:00

葉月 said:
It's misheard lyrics of the song, obviously it needs the tag.

Then I request implication balsamic_vinegar --> caramelldansen.

@Log: So if there is no implication should the...

2009-01-12T15:07:30-05:00

So if there is no implication should the opposite be true, remove the tags from existing images tagged with it when not pertaining directly to the original series/character?

gununu needs to be cleaned out if so (a bunch of the first few that were posted are tagged ana + ichigo)

@wanchan: I agree with LaC.

2009-01-12T14:50:17-05:00

I agree with LaC.

@LaC: I agree with jxh2154.

2009-01-12T05:30:09-05:00

I agree with jxh2154.

@葉月: > jxh2154 said: > I'd question if that should...

2009-01-12T05:08:19-05:00

jxh2154 said:
I'd question if that should even have the tag, or if probably less than 1% of the images under a tag somehow invalidate its main (visual) point.

It's misheard lyrics of the song, obviously it needs the tag. And just to point out that even pictures clearly refer to the song as a part of the meme, here's a sample:

post #310773 post #298438
post #248216 post #250598
post #194898 post #197683
post #196620 post #196696
post #199361

That's already far above 1% of 240 pictures tagged with caramelldansen. Notice also that the references to ウマウマ are somewhat more common in the earlier pictures, further strengthening the link between the song and the meme's origin.

And remember that I'm saying we shouldn't implicate copyrights for any of these memes

I'm aware of that. And I'm saying that we should for some and not for others, based on whether they're first- or higher-level derivations of the original copyright. Which, at least for me, is perfectly unambiguous in all of the cases you cite.

@jxh2154: > 葉月 said: as well as things like post...

2009-01-12T04:13:28-05:00

葉月 said: as well as things like post #201008,

I'd question if that should even have the tag, or if probably less than 1% of the images under a tag somehow invalidate its main (visual) point.

And remember that I'm saying we shouldn't implicate copyrights for any of these memes - gununu, just_as_planned, yukkuri, caramelldansen or otherwise. Use the wiki, and make sure to cross-reference between meme and copyright.

@NeverGonnaGive: > Algasir said: > Dunno if you saw this or not,...

2009-01-12T01:41:54-05:00

Algasir said:
Dunno if you saw this or not, but I found this explanation in one of the images with the tag:

Well, tagged the wallpaper using the image in that ad. Weird that its apparent sauce isn't included. Racists.

@葉月: > jxh2154 said: > Anyway, gununu is not notably...

2009-01-12T00:15:20-05:00

jxh2154 said:
Anyway, gununu is not notably more "direct" than caramelldansen. All memes go through a third party fan filter before being solidified.

And here's where we disagree. I say it *is* more direct, because it's a direct parody of the IM scene, whereas all caramelldansen pics are parodies of the meme which itself is a parody of popotan. They're not parodies of popotan per se, but of that very specific association of the song and visuals, regardless of whether the parodying work at hand has any sound at all. This is evidenced by both our tag and the Japanese term for it (ウマウマ), both of which refer to the song, as well as things like post #201008, which don't even refer to the visuals. This makes caramelldansen a separate entity on its own, distinct from all other possible parodies of that popotan scene. Ergo, caramelldansen has one more layer of indirection compared to gununu.

@Algasir: > T5J8F8 said: While on the subject of these...

2009-01-11T23:25:31-05:00

T5J8F8 said: While on the subject of these things, from where does "final_fantasy_pose" originate? They're the only pics in the "final_fantasy_* -final_fantasy" search that I don't slap the FF tag on.

Dunno if you saw this or not, but I found this explanation in one of the images with the tag:

Muey said:
I think the idea is to have a tag for this sort of character grouping -look, which is often seen in FF ads, like this for example: http://www.zomgwtf.net/RandomPicturesNstuff/misc/FinalFantasyAdvert.jpeg.
post #9965 would be another example of this - I'm sure there's more too, but it's a pain finding them without any surefire way to look them up.

@jxh2154: > T5J8F8 said: It's prolly already bee...

2009-01-11T23:14:05-05:00

T5J8F8 said: It's prolly already bee siggested, but why not make an "Associated Memes and Parodies" section for each series's (and perhaps character's/characters') related memes?

These things tend to get covered in the wiki already, but emphasizing them with their own header isn't a bad idea.

@NeverGonnaGive: It's prolly already bee siggested, but why not...

2009-01-11T22:24:26-05:00

It's prolly already bee siggested, but why not make an "Associated Memes and Parodies" section for each series's (and perhaps character's/characters') related memes? Heck, maybe add a meme section macro to the wiki editor. *is still not all that up on how everything here works*

While on the subject of these things, from where does "final_fantasy_pose" originate? They're the only pics in the "final_fantasy_* -final_fantasy" search that I don't slap the FF tag on.

Oh, and
objection to gyakuten_saiban
(with a possible edit to "objection!"?)

@Soljashy: I think it's a bad idea to implicate these...

2009-01-11T20:48:41-05:00

I think it's a bad idea to implicate these phenomena to the copyrights that spawned them.

People who don't know about these memes (which I bet makes up most of a copyright's fanbase) will be puzzled by the flood of images that, to them, seem to have no relation to what they are searching for. Until they learn of the meme through the wiki, in which case they might be irked (I know I would be).

On the other hand, those who know of the meme (and are probably be the only ones searching for it) will almost certainly know what it is called. If they don't, I think the little effort required to figure it out (through the tags/wiki) should fall on them as the (assumed) minority of the fanbase.

@jxh2154: > 葉月 said: Nope. The scene made its rounds on...

2009-01-11T05:32:53-05:00

葉月 said: Nope. The scene made its rounds on the net as a gif way before it was associated with the swedish pop song, and was just a cute little snippet taken out of the anime

I know the origins of the meme very well, but that's not the point. The song isn't what we're tagging (as you would of course agree, after all, a song isn't a visual element), we're tagging the dance/pose.

The dance move that has been taken practically frame for frame from the game (not anime) OP, and had other characters inserted in doing that dance. This is, for tagging purposes, the same thing as the gununu situation, where a frame of animation was taken and had other characters inserted into it making that facial expression.

Caramelldansen is the tag used to identify it because that's what popularized it (including in thousands of still and gif images that never play a single note of the song), and for lack of a better tag to use it stuck. Alternately you could change it to "popotan_dance" but why? It's well established as is.

If you want to focus on the song as the meme, then you have to tag the song, and thus you have to remove it from every caramelldansen upload that isn't a flash. This would be destructive and counterproductive though. Note, this seems to have been the approach taken for loituma, and I think that tag is all the poorer for it. There are so many spinning object images parodying that song('s Bleach parody flash) that don't seem to have a tag pulling them all together.

Anyway, gununu is not notably more "direct" than caramelldansen. All memes go through a third party fan filter before being solidified.

@0xCCBA696: Caramelldansen is the song, yes, but as the...

2009-01-11T03:49:38-05:00

Caramelldansen is the song, yes, but as the wiki states, the tag caramelldansen refers to the dance. This is, after all, primarily an image repository site.

@葉月: > jxh2154 said: > Both were pulled as-is from...

2009-01-11T03:26:41-05:00

jxh2154 said:
Both were pulled as-is from their original sources, redrawn with new characters, and became memes. In fact, they're very, very similar.

Nope. The scene made its rounds on the net as a gif way before it was associated with the swedish pop song, and was just a cute little snippet taken out of the anime (you can see it, for example, in http://www.4chan.org/flash?file=MegaSlotsv1.0.swf&title=Megaslots+v1.0&w=600&h=400 , where it's used with a totally different music and in no way related to caramelldansen). Caramelldansen came into picture much later and has taken a life on its own, at which point it transformed into something different that's only tangentially related to popotan, much in the way yukkuris did. Gununu, OTOH, is a direct parody of IM's art style and is immediately recognisable as such.

@evazion: Shouldn't these things implicate meme, since...

2009-01-11T03:04:19-05:00

Shouldn't these things implicate meme, since that's what they are? Or is meme a pointless tag?

Regardless, I think I'll start a tag group:meme wiki page to list all these tags in one spot. Edit it if I'm missing something.

@jxh2154: The distinction doesn't seem so clear. ...

2009-01-11T02:10:25-05:00

The distinction doesn't seem so clear.

Caramelldansen originated with a short animated dance in the Popotan game OP [Edit: see post #29808 - the original].
Gununu originated with a short animated scene of Ana grumbling.

Both were pulled as-is from their original sources, redrawn with new characters, and became memes. In fact, they're very, very similar.

@葉月: We should be careful here to distinguish...

2009-01-11T01:56:34-05:00

We should be careful here to distinguish parodies of copyrights from parodies spawned by their fandoms. Gununu is an example of the former, yukkuri_shiteitte_ne and caramelldansen are the latter. Thus caramelldansen should not implicate popotan. If you don't keep this distinction in mind, then thread suggestion indeed becomes dangerously complex. Also, there's nothing stopping you from searching for ichigo_mashimaro -gununu. It is an IM parody, so it should be tagged as such.

@jxh2154: > 葉月 said: If I'm searching for pics of "that...

2009-01-11T01:18:56-05:00

葉月 said: If I'm searching for pics of "that Ichigo Mashimaro parody", I shouldn't be required to know that gununu has a specific name, because it is a specific subset of the more general class of Ichigo Mashimaro parodies.

I'd actually heard of gununu and seen a number of them before I knew it was an IM parody. I'm probably not the only one.

And if we implicated it, then fully a third of all ichigo_mashimaro images on the site would actually be gununus from other series. That's definitely a problem, and a much higher percentage than with most parodies. But it's definitely worst with popotan/caramelldansen, where the latter would be two thirds of all popotan images if implicated. We have many more caramelldansen images than images from the series that spawned it.

So, generally, you either have too much meme tag diluting or flat out dominating the copyright, or so few meme tags that you'd have a hell of a time finding them mixed in with the larger copyright tag. (Good luck stumbling upon, and noticing the tag for, one of the 70 take_it_home images in 4000 higurashi uploads! Wiki is the best solution.)