[REJECTED] Tag implication: ashford_academy_uniform -> school_uniform

@DanbooruBot: The bulk update request #1936 (forum #154008)...

2019-03-16T20:02:15-04:00

The bulk update request #1936 (forum #154008) has been rejected by @DanbooruBot.

@DanbooruBot: This bulk update request has been rejected...

2019-03-16T20:02:14-04:00

This bulk update request has been rejected because it was not approved within 60 days.

@DanbooruBot: This bulk update request is pending automatic...

2019-03-11T20:02:22-04:00

This bulk update request is pending automatic rejection in 5 days.

@NWF_Renim: Which path is it that you're going with...

2019-02-12T21:49:45-05:00

Which path is it that you're going with Type-kun? The *_academy_school_uniform route seemed the easiest solution on maintaining consistency, while also leaving room for those that are referred by the term academy. It might be a bit redundant, but it seems to me the most versatile of the solutions to maintain a naming consistency.

@Type-kun: Ok, I know I said to make the aliases myself,...

2019-02-12T04:13:49-05:00

Ok, I know I said to make the aliases myself, but I'm still rather inclined to autoimply *_academy_uniform to school uniform instead of forcing all those into "*_school_uniform". gakuen/gakuin uniforms are a minority and can be dealt with on individual basis. @Hillside_Moose @NWF_Renim I'll need you to tune in.

@evazion: My stance is that all school uniform tags...

2019-02-04T23:52:27-05:00

My stance is that all school uniform tags should end with *_school_uniform. Anything that's not actually a school uniform should not end in *_school_uniform. This is simple and it makes it easy to find all *_school_uniform tags. It doesn't need to be any harder than this.

We currently have not just *_school_uniform and *academy*uniform*, but also *gakuen*uniform*, *gakuin*uniform*. This is needlessly inconsistent. We don't need four different naming schemes.

I'm fine with *_academy_school_uniform. It's somewhat redundant, but whatever. I don't like autoimplying *_academy_uniform -> school uniform though. It's just simpler all around to make everything end with *_school_uniform.

@G-SANtos: You know, I just remembered something,...

2019-02-04T21:18:02-05:00

You know, I just remembered something, Aikatsu!'s Dream Academy uniform can't be moved to dream_school_uniform because the school's name is actually ドリームアカデミー, not ドリーム学園. That same anime also has a school named Churaumi Beat Academy, which is 美海ビートアカデミー, so although there's currently no tag for it, when a tag is eventually created we can't call it churaumi_beat_school_uniform.

Furthermore, there are non-Japanese IPs, and even English-language ones, such as RWBY that have schools with "Academy" in the name, and you can't argue that is a translation of 学園 or any other non-English word. We can't have Beacon Academy's uniform tagged beacon_school_uniform.

skylightcrystal said:

There's the issue that you might get an academy that isn't a school, but it would be bizarre to have something named "academy", that isn't a school (especially if things like military academies are being treated as schools) and that does have a specific uniform, and it would be easy to find a workaround if such a thing did come into existance.

Well, there is an Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences, so it's very possible to have an academy that isn't a school. But I think it's more likely for this problem to happen with "school" because the word "school" actually has other meanings besides "educational institution" and which are more common than for the word "academy", like "school of thought" and "school of fish".

Like, you know how the anime industry (or animation in general) can often get weird with their anthropomorphic bears, zombie idols, and space fishermen. What if we one day get some philosophy-themed anime where members of different schools of thought, like Confucian School or Socratic School, wear specific uniforms? We would get confucian_school_uniform and socratic_school_uniform being auto-tagged as school uniforms even though they aren't.

That one at least has an easy workaround, which is tagging these as *_school_of_thought_uniform (though it would feel clunky, specially if that series never uses the full term "school of thought" when referring to the group). But what about the fish one? It's very possible (and in my opinion, more likely than the philosophy-themed series) to get an anime where we have fish-themed teams named "schools", like the Barracuda School or the Neon School, which would have their own uniforms. There would be no way to tag the Barracuda School uniform other than barracuda_school_uniform.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not exactly against auto-implying repetitively named tags, but I think no one has exactly put any thought on possible future situations. Like, when *_school_uniform was initially auto-implied to school uniform, no one brought up the possibility that one day we might have a copyright named [something]_school_uniform, which is definitely possible, like, if you go through all the *_uniform tags you'll notice that three of them are character tags (which I never changed because I know nothing about Phantasy Star, so I can't say for sure it's a mistake), so anything is possible. We literally have a famous anime with two sentient school uniforms in it. Is it really that ridiculous to think we could get another, and that it could be titled something like, say, Isekai no School Uniform?

@skylightcrystal: > BrokenEagle98 said: > > I'm opposed to a...

2019-01-17T11:36:48-05:00

BrokenEagle98 said:

I'm opposed to a hackish solution like that which is basically just jumping through hoops in order to force a particular scheme.

Why is using that solution for x_academy_uniform tags any worse than using it for x_school_uniform tags? Aside from the possibility of something weird coming up that I mentioned myself, which is slightly higher in this case than in that one?

@AngryZapdos: Instead of changing all x_academy_uniform tags...

2019-01-17T05:06:00-05:00

Instead of changing all x_academy_uniform tags to x_school_uniform tags, why not change them to x_academy_school_uniform tags? It would still maintain tag correctness while also implementing tag utility by using the same tagging scheme as other x_school_uniform tags. This would also solve the potential issue of a school and an academy sharing the same name.

@BrokenEagle98: > G-SANtos said: > > ...You're arguing for tag...

2019-01-17T04:32:06-05:00

G-SANtos said:

...

You're arguing for tag correctness over tag utility. It doesn't matter what we call them, but lumping them all under one scheme makes them easier to remember and tag. In general, what's better for the group as whole is preferable to something that is only championed by a few individuals.

skylightcrystal said:

Could we instead do a similar thing for *_academy_uniform that we are now doing for *_school_uniform, so that any tag ending *_academy_uniform also automatically adds the school_uniform tag?

I'm opposed to a hackish solution like that which is basically just jumping through hoops in order to force a particular scheme.

@skylightcrystal: Could we instead do a similar thing for...

2019-01-17T01:46:05-05:00

Could we instead do a similar thing for *_academy_uniform that we are now doing for *_school_uniform, so that any tag ending *_academy_uniform also automatically adds the school_uniform tag?

There's the issue that you might get an academy that isn't a school, but it would be bizarre to have something named "academy", that isn't a school (especially if things like military academies are being treated as schools) and that does have a specific uniform, and it would be easy to find a workaround if such a thing did come into existance.

@G-SANtos: > evazion said: > Reason: Move all...

2019-01-16T21:49:21-05:00

evazion said:
Reason: Move all *_academy_uniform tags to *_school_uniform so that they automatically imply school uniform.

From what I can tell, all of these tags are derived from the word 学園 (gakuen), which can be translated as either academy or school. So even though 穂群原学園 is normally translated as Homurahara Academy, for example, as far as I know it's not incorrect to call the uniform a Homurahara school uniform.

I strongly disagree. 学園 from my experience is usually translated as "academy" instead of "school", and keeping this distinction in tags helps when we eventually have two schools with the same name but with 学校/学園 different, like, say, one copyright has a "Yamada School" and another has a "Yamada Academy". I mean, we kinda already have Seishou Music Academy being similar Seishou Elementary/Middle Schools, so we'll eventually reach that point. (In fact, I already noticed My-HiME is not the only copyright with a Fuuka Academy, but I never bothered creating a tag for the other copyright, and I don't even remember anymore what that was)

Moving stella_women's_academy_uniform to stella_women's_school_uniform sounds specially stupid when the series is literally named Stella Women's Academy, and even the manga's covers use the English word "academy", not "school".

Also, your argument is about the 学園 word, but what about Garderobe from My-Otome? The Garderobe uniform is a school uniform, and the school is not named Garderobe School or Garderobe Academy, it's literally just Garderobe. And also, Akademeia uniform. While the Japanese name is longer, the English name of the school is also just Akademeia, or at least that's the impression the Final Fantasy Wiki gives.

@evazion: [bur:1936] Reason: Move all *_academy_uniform...

2019-01-15T19:52:53-05:00

The bulk update request #1936 has been rejected.

mass update homurahara_academy_uniform -> homurahara_school_uniform
mass update st._chronica_academy_uniform -> st._chronica_school_uniform
mass update ashford_academy_uniform -> ashford_school_uniform
mass update starlight_academy_uniform -> starlight_school_uniform
mass update rouman_academy_uniform -> rouman_school_uniform
mass update shuujin_academy_uniform -> shuujin_school_uniform
mass update kouyouen_academy_uniform -> kouyouen_school_uniform
mass update lydian_academy_uniform -> lydian_school_uniform
mass update saikai_academy_uniform -> saikai_school_uniform
mass update l'avenir_academy_uniform -> l'avenir_school_uniform
mass update southern_cross_academy_uniform -> southern_cross_school_uniform
mass update yotsuboshi_academy_uniform -> yotsuboshi_school_uniform
mass update fuuka_academy_uniform -> fuuka_school_uniform
mass update dream_academy_uniform -> dream_school_uniform
mass update seishou_music_academy_uniform -> seishou_music_school_uniform
mass update hoshinoumi_academy_uniform -> hoshinoumi_school_uniform
mass update ototachibana_academy_uniform -> ototachibana_school_uniform
mass update infinite_stratos_academy_uniform -> infinite_stratos_school_uniform
mass update surre_academy_uniform -> surre_school_uniform
mass update osafune_girls_academy_uniform -> osafune_girls_school_uniform
mass update areishia_spirit_academy_uniform -> areishia_spirit_school_uniform
mass update kouryou_academy_uniform -> kouryou_school_uniform
mass update atlas_academy_uniform -> atlas_school_uniform
mass update seiyo_academy_uniform -> seiyo_school_uniform
mass update arashigaoka_academy_uniform -> arashigaoka_school_uniform
mass update seitetsu_academy_uniform -> seitetsu_school_uniform
mass update cross_academy_uniform -> cross_school_uniform
mass update nijigasaki_academy_uniform -> nijigasaki_school_uniform
mass update star_harmony_academy_uniform -> star_harmony_school_uniform
mass update seiryou_academy_uniform -> seiryou_school_uniform
mass update shuuchikan_academy_uniform -> shuuchikan_school_uniform
mass update hoshinomiya_fuuka_academy_uniform -> hoshinomiya_fuuka_school_uniform
mass update kouryoukan_academy_uniform -> kouryoukan_school_uniform
mass update aoi_academy_uniform -> aoi_school_uniform
mass update central_military_academy_uniform -> central_military_school_uniform
mass update himezakura_girls'_academy_uniform -> himezakura_girls'_school_uniform
mass update akane_academy_uniform -> akane_school_uniform
mass update seijou_academy_uniform -> seijou_school_uniform
mass update yokuryou_academy_uniform -> yokuryou_school_uniform
mass update stella_women's_academy_uniform -> stella_women's_school_uniform
mass update etoile_academy_uniform -> etoile_school_uniform
mass update uminomori_private_academy_uniform -> uminomori_private_school_uniform
mass update banzai_academy_uniform -> banzai_school_uniform
mass update private_paprika_academy_uniform -> private_paprika_school_uniform
mass update kagurazaka_girls'_academy_uniform -> kagurazaka_girls'_school_uniform
mass update ataraxia_academy_uniform -> ataraxia_school_uniform
mass update himeyuri_girls'_academy_uniform -> himeyuri_girls'_school_uniform
mass update seiei_sakuragaoka_academy_uniform -> seiei_sakuragaoka_school_uniform
mass update seidoukan_academy_uniform -> seidoukan_school_uniform
mass update st._aero_academy_uniform -> st._aero_school_uniform
mass update mikagura_private_academy_uniform -> mikagura_private_school_uniform
mass update sainomiya_fuuka_academy_uniform -> sainomiya_fuuka_school_uniform
mass update st._ignacio_girls'_academy_uniform -> st._ignacio_girls'_school_uniform
mass update private_ootori_academy_uniform -> private_ootori_school_uniform

Reason: Move all *_academy_uniform tags to *_school_uniform so that they automatically imply school uniform.

From what I can tell, all of these tags are derived from the word 学園 (gakuen), which can be translated as either academy or school. So even though 穂群原学園 is normally translated as Homurahara Academy, for example, as far as I know it's not incorrect to call the uniform a Homurahara school uniform.

EDIT: This bulk update request is pending automatic rejection in 5 days.

EDIT: This bulk update request has been rejected because it was not approved within 60 days.

EDIT: The bulk update request #1936 (forum #154008) has been rejected by @DanbooruBot.

@Type-kun: Make requests for aliasing *_academy_uniform to...

2018-12-24T05:49:58-05:00

Make requests for aliasing *_academy_uniform to *_school_uniform as necessary.

@DanbooruBot: The tag implication ashford_academy_uniform ->...

2018-12-24T05:49:12-05:00

The tag implication ashford_academy_uniform -> school_uniform (forum #152558) has been rejected by @Type-kun.

@evazion: This has been implemented. *_school_uniform now...

2018-12-05T16:19:50-05:00

This has been implemented. *_school_uniform now automatically implies school uniform. Tags like this that are named *_academy_uniform instead of *_school_uniform should probably be renamed.

@keonas: I'm for the 1st "All *_school_uniform tags get...

2018-11-25T17:09:32-05:00

I'm for the 1st "All *_school_uniform tags get the school_uniform tag"

In the cases where we feel like something doesn't fit the definition of a SU, we can just remove the _'school'_ part from the title.
Leave it _uniform or _academy_uniform, to avoid SU automatically being added. If it even gets its own tag at that point.

@BrokenEagle98: > Unbreakable said: > > This wouldn't clash...

2018-11-25T13:10:39-05:00

Unbreakable said:

This wouldn't clash with things like adapted costume now would it? *_school_uniform adapted_costume currently gives 4 pages of results and I don't think images like post #2596278 should get the school uniform tag, there are probably more posts like this but the wildcard search is limited to the top 12 named school uniform tags.

I and others have been adding the school uniform tags to those posts though.

I see a few possible ways forward with this.

1. All *_school_uniform tags get the school_uniform tag

Pros:

Easiest to maintain

Cons:

School uniform gets added to posts some may not agree with

2. Status quo

Pros:

More selective on what posts get the school uniform tag

Cons:

Hardest to maintain

Thoughts

Some ways to potentially alleviate the Cons of #1 would be to tighten the restrictions of what can get the *_school_uniform tag. In this case, it would need to still look like a school uniform. With that, I think that the adapted_uniform posts could also get the *_school_uniform tag. That tag probably needs to be gardened though and move some/many posts over to the adapted_costume tag.

One problem with the above is that now there would be no way to easily find the adapted_costume variants of a *_school_uniform tag. To counteract that, we could introduce a *_school_uniform_(alternate) tag. With that, it would then be possible to find those adapted_costume variants.

@Unbreakable: This wouldn't clash with things like adapted...

2018-11-25T10:12:41-05:00

This wouldn't clash with things like adapted costume now would it? *_school_uniform adapted_costume currently gives 4 pages of results and I don't think images like post #2596278 should get the school uniform tag, there are probably more posts like this but the wildcard search is limited to the top 12 named school uniform tags.

@evazion: I'll make an issue for it. EDIT: issue #3995.

2018-11-25T10:03:41-05:00

I'll make an issue for it.

EDIT: issue #3995.