Upload Bias

@freecom: > Lacrimosa said: > > I guess you can visit...

2019-03-27T20:51:27-04:00

Lacrimosa said:

I guess you can visit certain wiki pages where you can deepen your understanding of how the approving process works: about:mod_queue, about:unapproved_posts, about:deletion_appeals.

this really should be in the first post of the aforementioned upload feedback thread. as someone who doesn't upload a lot, those pages alone clarified the black box that is the approval process more than the squabbling that often goes on in that thread.

@XenotheWise135: > Damian0358 said: > > Since this whole ordeal...

2019-03-25T15:09:53-04:00

Damian0358 said:

Since this whole ordeal bothered me extensively, I decided to do the only logical thing - if the images in question were sourced from the artist's Discord, why not go there? Thankfully, their Discord is publicly accessible, so getting on it was not difficult.

The first thing to check, of course, was identifying whether or not Xeno was telling the truth, and I can confirm without a shadow of a doubt that Xeno is indeed not the artist. However, it does appear that Xeno does appear to have a close affiliation with the artist, serving as one of their moderators, which explains their attachment to their art.

Secondly, it was searching for the sources of not only the images, but also that comment made, because if I'm reading it properly, it sounds more like something intended for the artist's commentary. Searching the artist's messages for all those with images in them, I had little luck, and the comment too was nowhere to be found. While this could count as a strike against Xeno, aside from their moderatorship, they also have another role, which the artist elaborated on saying those in it "help me in the projects creation", meaning that the images and comment in question are very likely in channels inaccessible to roleless members.

I do hope Xeno does not mind me sharing this information, as it is blatantly in the open, but it does help their case in clarifying that they, indeed, are not the artist.

Yeah. Thank you lol. I noticed that lots of art gets tagged as the artists requesting them be removed, and decided to ask Ryan if it was okay. I wanted to help him out and get some of his stuff on the site, and without really being knowledgable on the subject, allowed me to assume his handle. When the rules were pointed out, I went ahead and changed my name back, and sent an email to the administrator but never got a response :(. For now though, I'll make sure anything of his I try to upload will be properly sourced, even if it's just a bad-link, and regret ever having thought it was a good idea to be him lol. This forum can be closed.

@Damian0358: Since this whole ordeal bothered me...

2019-03-24T17:48:56-04:00

Since this whole ordeal bothered me extensively, I decided to do the only logical thing - if the images in question were sourced from the artist's Discord, why not go there? Thankfully, their Discord is publicly accessible, so getting on it was not difficult.

The first thing to check, of course, was identifying whether or not Xeno was telling the truth, and I can confirm without a shadow of a doubt that Xeno is indeed not the artist. However, it does appear that Xeno does appear to have a close affiliation with the artist, serving as one of their moderators, which explains their attachment to their art.

Secondly, it was searching for the sources of not only the images, but also that comment made, because if I'm reading it properly, it sounds more like something intended for the artist's commentary. Searching the artist's messages for all those with images in them, I had little luck, and the comment too was nowhere to be found. While this could count as a strike against Xeno, aside from their moderatorship, they also have another role, which the artist elaborated on saying those in it "help me in the projects creation", meaning that the images and comment in question are very likely in channels inaccessible to roleless members.

I do hope Xeno does not mind me sharing this information, as it is blatantly in the open, but it does help their case in clarifying that they, indeed, are not the artist.

@NNescio: > XenotheWise135 said: > > I am not retroryno....

2019-03-24T16:57:28-04:00

XenotheWise135 said:

I am not retroryno. I tried explaining the situation in an email listed for the contact of the site, but of course nobody responded, and I'm stuck defending myself every upload.

You are lying in one way or another. From post #3446421:

XenotheWise135 said:

Forgot to add this when uploading. Atalanta is so cute, and I wanted to do her alter outfit but her alter form makes me sad haha, so I did best of both worlds I guess? Let me know if you like it! I don't normally do art like this.

(Bolded mine)

XenotheWise135 said:

I don't get it. Danbooru is an art site. I posted art. ?

XenotheWise135 said:

Okay, I read the link you posted. I would like to clarify my name is retroryno because the real one approved my uploading of his art, but neither of us were aware of the self-publish rule. Mods will be able to see that my name was changed very recently from my regular handle, and I will be willing to change back to my previous name next week and upload his art at my own discretion, and not his. if I am deemed "compromised" in this manner I'll give up...

So, either you were masquerading as the artist first (maaaybe you had permission, but that is irrelevant to people reading), or you are the artist and changed your tack (and username) after you found out self-uploads aren't allowed.

(Or I dunno, sharing an account with the artist, in which case it's technically not lying, but that's explicitly against our ToS.)

This puts all your subsequent uploads under scrutiny, because people now have (very good) reasons to suspect you're a self-uploader. That you have demonstrated a very personal attachment to the art just reinforces this further.

Now, as for the art that got deleted, they are technically proficient, but nothing about them stand out in a way. Unsourced uploads are also less likely to be approved, because it's make it significantly harder to determine the provenance (is it an original work or a 3rd-party edit?) The inconsistent art style doesn't help either with provenance (maybe the artist likes doing style parodies, but this is just a red flag for people unfamiliar with the artist, and they can't check without sources). Approvers also don't want to encourage rule-breaking (or rule-bending) behavior; if you can't be arsed to source your uploads, they can't be arsed much to give your upload much consideration. Likewise, being a suspect self-uploader also lowers your chances of your posts getting approved even further.

As for the uncalled-for porn accusations, just refer to BrokenEagle98's excellent posts backed up by statistical data.

@BrokenEagle98: > ygm_1 said: > > To be fair, danbooru is far...

2019-03-23T23:21:23-04:00

ygm_1 said:

To be fair, danbooru is far from conservative with it's ratings, and many rating:safe images definitely fall under scantily-clad.

Some more facts.

Dresses

~1girl ~multiple_girls dress -swimsuit -leotard -breasts -nude -ass -thighs rating:safe

Can't get much more restrictive without going through it manually. The first page looks legit though.

6821 unapproved
96835 approved
103656 total
6.6% unapproval ratio

Skirts

~1girl ~multiple_girls skirt -swimsuit -leotard -breasts -nude -ass -thighs rating:safe

Same restrictions as dress.

7218 unapproved
119495 approved
110874 total
6.5% unapproval ratio

Swimsuits

~1girl ~multiple_girls swimsuit rating:safe
5443 unapproved
49872 approved
55315 total
9.8% unapproval ratio

Ass

~1girl ~multiple_girls ass rating:safe
2722 unapproved
22890 approved
25612 total
10.6% unapproval ratio

Final

So girls in skirts and dresses do better than rating:safe, whereas girls in swimsuits do worse than rating:safe. Girls with an emphasis on the ass do even worse than swimsuits.

The above does not surprise me too much. I've heard some approvers say that they only approve rating:safe, and many on this site have very long blacklists. Also, for myself at least, the more scantily clad a girl is, the higher the bar for me wanting to upload it. I imagine the same is true with many approvers.

@ygm_1: To be fair, danbooru is far from conservative...

2019-03-23T22:29:04-04:00

To be fair, danbooru is far from conservative with it's ratings, and many rating:safe images definitely fall under scantily-clad.

@BrokenEagle98: Lots of invective with unsubstantiated claims....

2019-03-23T22:25:59-04:00

Lots of invective with unsubstantiated claims. Now for some facts.

Tag	Unapproved	Approved	Total	Unapproved ratio
status:safe	100302	951786	1052088	9.5%
status:questionable	37926	136973	174899	21.7%
status:explicit	43106	78052	121158	35.6%
loli	3246	11117	14363	22.6%
male_focus	10844	74326	85170	12.7%
no_humans	5153	20890	26043	19.8%
scenery	227	6494	6721	3.4%
still_life	35	175	210	16.7%
All posts	181334	1166811	1348145	13.5%

So yeah... "scantily clad waifus and naked lolis" (status:questionable, status:explicit, loli) have a much greater ratio of unapprovals than the site average. In fact, all of those ratios are above every other category.

On the other hand, status:safe, male focus, and scenery are all lower than the site average. Although No humans and still life are higher than the site average, they are both still under the unapproved ratios of "balloon tits and pedo-food".

Know your facts next time.

@Damian0358: > XenotheWise135 said: > > You have been the...

2019-03-23T17:24:56-04:00

XenotheWise135 said:

You have been the most helpful here by far. I will keep all this in mind going forward.

Glad to hear that.

Additionally, keep in mind as well that there is no guarantee that the art will get approved even after you asked for feedback - sometimes it just doesn't click, and rather than finding oneself frustrated by the prospect, instead just see what does click and upload it instead. Now, this may contribute to your current view of approvers only wanting quality suggestive, lewd or loli art, examples have been given that this isn't entirely the case. There's biased and unbiased approvers, and that fact unfortunately can't be changed.

At the very least, none can accuse you of uploading art that would undoubtedly be offtopic for the website, as the art in question does fit the more Japanese-centric nature of the website.

I can however offer you a piece of advice, that being to remain calm and respectful, even when facing those that aren't - people will match your tone, as most others within this topic have done. Always keep this in mind.

@XenotheWise135: > Damian0358 said: > > Ignoring the...

2019-03-23T17:11:25-04:00

Damian0358 said:

Ignoring the possibility of you having changed your account's name to avoid folks noticing that you're self-uploading, and trusting your word at this current time;

If the image is exclusively from the artist's Discord server, then include the original image link as the source and note either in the artist's commentary or in the comments (preferably the latter) that the image is exclusively on their Discord (and if their Discord is public, include it in their artist entry, though if not, include the avenue through which you could get access (like, for instance, if it is something Patrons get access too, include a link to their Patreon (and if they already had art on there too, then include it in the artist entry - in fact, if you wanted to give them further exposure, you would've filled out their entry with all their relevant social media accounts through which interested users can find their art)).

While this would warrant the posts in question being labeled with bad_link, it would still significantly increase the chances for the approval of the art.

In regards to approvers, they do have the liberty to approve what they want, and while this does filter art that one would consider genuinely bad, good art can fall through the cracks - hence the Upload Feedback Thread. It is also somewhat undeniable that there is somewhat of a bias in terms of the content of the image for some approvers, but others don't have such biases, meaning that for the art that you uploaded, you found yourself in the unfortunate situation of being unable to be approved by those biased and those unbiased. Again, calmly and respectfully asking in the Upload Feedback Thread may have proven worthwhile, as it may have given your uploads a second chance, because as mentioned, good art can fall through the cracks.

You have been the most helpful here by far. I will keep all this in mind going forward. And to repeat, no, I am not actually retroryno lol

@Lacrimosa: > XenotheWise135 said: > > It speaks to the...

2019-03-23T17:09:53-04:00

XenotheWise135 said:

It speaks to the quality of the approvers, where your pedo-art is an instant click and accept where a stylized painting of a guy is denied 12 out of 12 times. Then we have others supporting the idea that yes, male focused art most likely won't get accepted. I mean, where is that listed in your goddamn upload rules, huh? "Remember, we're here to stare an anime titties, not actual art.". Should be rule number one.

And in terms of sources, I got that from his discord where he shared it, but if any of his stuff goes on Twitter then I'll have the upload link. We'll see if it helps those posts or not, but you're really not giving me hope on the matter. I should just tell him to sell out and draw all the shit Danbooru ACTUALLY wants.

Dunno. An artist shouldn't draw because they want their stuff on Danbooru but because they have fun drawing stuff.

And you know...approvers approve what they like. That's the first rule for approvers that approvers see when moderating posts. I guess you can visit certain wiki pages where you can deepen your understanding of how the approving process works: about:mod_queue, about:unapproved_posts, about:deletion_appeals.

@Damian0358: Ignoring the possibility of you having changed...

2019-03-23T17:08:05-04:00

Ignoring the possibility of you having changed your account's name to avoid folks noticing that you're self-uploading, and trusting your word at this current time;

If the image is exclusively from the artist's Discord server, then include the original image link as the source and note either in the artist's commentary or in the comments (preferably the latter) that the image is exclusively on their Discord (and if their Discord is public, include it in their artist entry, though if not, include the avenue through which you could get access (like, for instance, if it is something Patrons get access too, include a link to their Patreon (and if they already had art on there too, then include it in the artist entry - in fact, if you wanted to give them further exposure, you would've filled out their entry with all their relevant social media accounts through which interested users can find their art)).

While this would warrant the posts in question being labeled with bad_link, it would still significantly increase the chances for the approval of the art.

In regards to approvers, they do have the liberty to approve what they want, and while this does filter art that one would consider genuinely bad, good art can fall through the cracks - hence the Upload Feedback Thread. It is also somewhat undeniable that there is somewhat of a bias in terms of the content of the image for some approvers, but others don't have such biases, meaning that for the art that you uploaded, you found yourself in the unfortunate situation of being unable to be approved by those biased and those unbiased. Again, calmly and respectfully asking in the Upload Feedback Thread may have proven worthwhile, as it may have given your uploads a second chance, because as mentioned, good art can fall through the cracks.

@XenotheWise135: > Lacrimosa said: > > Ok, it seems that you...

2019-03-23T17:02:35-04:00

Lacrimosa said:

Ok, it seems that you also self-uploaded these images.
Then that's a pretty dead sign for these posts as we don't like when artists themselves upload stuff to Danbooru as this is a re-hosting website.

I am not retroryno. I tried explaining the situation in an email listed for the contact of the site, but of course nobody responded, and I'm stuck defending myself every upload.

@XenotheWise135: > Unbreakable said: > > I don't see how those...

2019-03-23T16:59:03-04:00

Unbreakable said:

I don't see how those two are related in any way?

It speaks to the quality of the approvers, where your pedo-art is an instant click and accept where a stylized painting of a guy is denied 12 out of 12 times. Then we have others supporting the idea that yes, male focused art most likely won't get accepted. I mean, where is that listed in your goddamn upload rules, huh? "Remember, we're here to stare an anime titties, not actual art.". Should be rule number one.

And in terms of sources, I got that from his discord where he shared it, but if any of his stuff goes on Twitter then I'll have the upload link. We'll see if it helps those posts or not, but you're really not giving me hope on the matter. I should just tell him to sell out and draw all the shit Danbooru ACTUALLY wants.

@Lacrimosa: Ok, it seems that you also self-uploaded these...

2019-03-23T16:58:19-04:00

Ok, it seems that you also self-uploaded these images.
Then that's a pretty dead sign for these posts as we don't like when artists themselves upload stuff to Danbooru as this is a re-hosting website.

@Unbreakable: > XenotheWise135 said: > > Fuckin' uploading...

2019-03-23T16:54:42-04:00

XenotheWise135 said:

Fuckin' uploading underaged girls in string bikinis then lecturing me on what approvers are most likely to accept... so stupid.

I don't see how those two are related in any way?

@Lacrimosa: > XenotheWise135 said: > > The painting of...

2019-03-23T16:54:33-04:00

XenotheWise135 said:

The painting of Byakuya was awesome and should have been accepted, but whatever. I was trying to get a bud some publicity cuz I thought his art rocked, but I guess you think otherwise. Fuckin' uploading underaged girls in string bikinis then lecturing me on what approvers are most likely to accept... so stupid. Hopefully the next time he'll draw something to your "standards".

Then add a source if you really want to create publicity for the artist and I might approve the post.
Sources are important.

@XenotheWise135: The painting of Byakuya was awesome and should...

2019-03-23T16:51:37-04:00

The painting of Byakuya was awesome and should have been accepted, but whatever. I was trying to get a bud some publicity cuz I thought his art rocked, but I guess you think otherwise. Fuckin' uploading underaged girls in string bikinis then lecturing me on what approvers are most likely to accept... so stupid. Hopefully the next time he'll draw something to your "standards".

@Lacrimosa: > iridescent_slime said: > > Was my answer not...

2019-03-23T16:45:24-04:00

iridescent_slime said:

Was my answer not good enough? :(

Yes :3
But seriously, there is a difference between that and male focus.
There is the undeniable fact that only few approvers are willing to approve male-only posts. And when you have less approvers the lower is the chance of approvals. Meaning when I reject a "normal" post the chance of the post getting approved is still high while when I reject a male focus upload the chances are high it gets deleted.

@Unbreakable: > iridescent_slime said: > > Was my answer not...

2019-03-23T16:45:23-04:00

iridescent_slime said:

Was my answer not good enough? :(

For what it's worth, I liked it.

@iridescent_slime: Was my answer not good enough? :( Maybe if...

2019-03-23T16:44:15-04:00

Was my answer not good enough? :(

Maybe if you'd post questions about your uploads in the correct thread instead of creating a new one just to whine you'd get better responses.