Standardizing Princess Connect Qualifiers

@Wilfriback: Just a trivia for you guys Her in game name,...

2020-05-23T23:08:03-04:00

Just a trivia for you guys
Her in game name, Kyaru, is an accidental misspelling of her real name, Kiruya キルヤ > キャル

@DanbooruBot: The bulk update request #2629 (forum #166410)...

2020-05-11T02:10:38-04:00

The bulk update request #2629 (forum #166410) has been approved by @evazion.

@evazion: [bur:2629] Reverse Karyl -> Kyaru alias. ...

2020-05-11T02:08:59-04:00

The bulk update request #2629 is active.

create alias kyaru_(princess_connect!) -> karyl_(princess_connect!)

Reverse Karyl -> Kyaru alias.

EDIT: The bulk update request #2629 (forum #166410) has been approved by @evazion.

@DanbooruBot: The bulk update request #2628 (forum #166408)...

2020-05-11T02:07:57-04:00

The bulk update request #2628 (forum #166408) has been approved by @evazion.

@evazion: [bur:2628] Reverse Karyl -> Kyaru alias. ...

2020-05-11T02:07:53-04:00

The bulk update request #2628 is active.

remove alias karyl_(princess_connect!) -> kyaru_(princess_connect!)

Reverse Karyl -> Kyaru alias.

EDIT: The bulk update request #2628 (forum #166408) has been approved by @evazion.

@7HS: Your understanding is correct. If we want to...

2020-05-10T04:59:53-04:00

Your understanding is correct.

If we want to use Karyl, we need to reverse the alias away from karyl (princess connect!) that was just put in place as part of the BUR. Sorry about that, I should probably not have made it so long and unwieldy.

Aside from that, I'll work on updating wikis and tagging the real world versions of characters over the next few days.

@DanbooruBot: The bulk update request #2363 (forum #164072)...

2020-05-10T03:13:58-04:00

The bulk update request #2363 (forum #164072) has been approved by @evazion.

@evazion: This is what I understand: * Each character...

2020-05-10T03:13:43-04:00

This is what I understand:

Each character has a real version and a game version.
The real version is known by their full name and the game version is known by their first name only.
However, for most characters, we're using the full name even though the game version is the "default" version.
Most characters also have Summer, New Years, or other skins in addition to their real world skin.
Some characters have more than one real world skin (see post #3486509; the frilled bikini and the white dress are listed as her two real life outfits in the PriConne wiki).

7HS said:

firstname_(real)_(princess_connect!) or something similar: Not very intuitive in what it represents, I have to admit, but the least likely to be mistakenly tagged. Also pretty darn long. Maybe firstname_(real)_(priconne) instead? The precedent is that alternate FGO forms that are double-qualified use the shorter qualifier _(fate).

firstname_(real)_(princess_connect!) sounds like the best option to me. It's kind of awkward but it's less confusing than having Natsume Kokkoro (Princess Connect!) and Kokkoro be two different things. It also allows for tagging other skins if we want, like Kokkoro (Summer) for the summer skin (post #3648893) or Kokkoro (New Years) for the New Years skin (post #3775729). For some (most?) characters their other skins are more popular than their real world skins.

As far as Kyaru vs Karyl, I would say go with Karyl given that Karyl is the name used in official sources and it doesn't sound like we have a strong reason to override that.

@DanbooruBot: This bulk update request is pending automatic...

2020-05-09T21:26:26-04:00

This bulk update request is pending automatic rejection in 5 days.

@7HS: In an additional complication, I've discovered...

2020-04-21T21:55:44-04:00

In an additional complication, I've discovered that "Karyl" as a romanization of キャル is printed on official Japanese merchandise that was sold at the 2019 CyStore Akihabara Carnival: https://i.imgur.com/lKOLpsT.jpg

howto:romanize suggests that we should probably stick with Kyaru, but there are considerations.

We're already using a few other "non-Danbooru standard" romanizations for PriConne, such as "Pecorine" and "Chloe."
The name could be argued to be "made-up," but also argued to be Japanese (it's a typo of her real name, Kiruya, that she made when signing up for the MMO.)
When her name is spelled in Roman letters, "Karyl" has been consistently used in every source I know of with some connection to Cygames, including the English versions of Granblue Fantasy and Shadowverse, the official subtitles for the anime, and apparently also PriConne merch.
English-speaking fans are sharply divided as to their preference with no clear majority. I have also seen Japanese artists use "Karyl", such as in post #3872240.

For now I've added an alias from karyl_(princess_connect!) to kyaru_(princess_connect!) to my BUR, since regardless of which one is the target tag, an alias seems prudent.

@7HS: To answer my own question, given what evasion...

2020-04-12T00:08:49-04:00

To answer my own question, given what evasion posted in topic #16723:

evazion said:

Normally when a character has two visually distinct forms, we use separate tags for each form. So if they have an in-game form and an out-of-game form, we would use their game name for their game form and their real name for their real form. This appears to be the case here.

I think the option most consistent with how we handle similar copyrights like Bofuri is tagging the real world forms as full_name_(princess_connect!). Since AFAIK the only "real world form" tag currently in use for PriConne is natsume_kokkoro_(princess_connect!), this doesn't affect my BUR much. It will mostly require going through each character tag and manually adding new tags, which I can do gradually.

That leaves one more question: would it be confusing to alias the PriConne characters' full names (when they aren't ambiguous, like sakurai_nozomi and futaba_aoi) to their in-game names and also have full_name_(princess_connect!) tags for their real world appearances?

If the majority opinion is yes, I can edit all the aliases above to be mass updates instead. The tags may get recreated though by uploaders who got used to them and aren't aware of the change, though.

@7HS: I'm OK with that, but what should we tag the...

2020-03-16T03:35:32-04:00

I'm OK with that, but what should we tag the real world variants as?

full_name: Means we can't alias the full names to firstname_(qualifier) as Unbreakable suggested. Might cause confusion, as there will be nothing directing uploaders and taggers to the new tags for the more common MMO appearances, except for wiki pages which a lot of users don't check. Also, a couple of the character names have to be (and currently already are) disambiguated.
full_name_(princess_connect!): Avoids the above issues, but I feel like both this and the first option might result in mistagging, as the tag name itself contains no indication of what distinguishes it from the 'regular' tag.
firstname_(real)_(princess_connect!) or something similar: Not very intuitive in what it represents, I have to admit, but the least likely to be mistakenly tagged. Also pretty darn long. Maybe firstname_(real)_(priconne) instead? The precedent is that alternate FGO forms that are double-qualified use the shorter qualifier _(fate).

@EB: > NWF_Renim said: > > If the character's "real...

2020-03-16T00:55:48-04:00

NWF_Renim said:

If the character's "real world" appearance is different from their "MMO" appearance, I think it would be worthwhile to separate the two depictions instead of lumping them together.

I agree. They look pretty visually distinct, so I think it's worthwhile having separate tags. Art with the "real world" variants looks to be rarer on Danbooru, so it would help with finding them if needed.

@NWF_Renim: If the character's "real world" appearance is...

2020-03-15T20:16:43-04:00

If the character's "real world" appearance is different from their "MMO" appearance, I think it would be worthwhile to separate the two depictions instead of lumping them together.

@7HS: [bur:2363] Reason: No one's expressed an...

2020-03-15T18:48:03-04:00

The bulk update request #2363 is active.

Reason: No one's expressed an opinion either way, so here is the BUR I had in mind.

It mostly aliases the full "real world" names to given name + qualifier, but also corrects a few incorrect romanizations ("Natsume Kokkoro", "Tomi Kuka") and the inconsistent qualifiers that originally prompted this forum topic.

I can break it up if necessary - I know large BURs sometimes cause issues but I'm not sure if the problem is caused by the number of tags being updated or the number of posts being updated. (Most of these tags have a double or single-digit amount of posts.)

I skipped a few tags that have the wrong qualifier and very few posts, I'll correct them manually afterwards.

EDIT: This bulk update request is pending automatic rejection in 5 days.

EDIT: The bulk update request #2363 (forum #164072) has been approved by @evazion.

@Unbreakable: Given that I haven't played either of the games...

2020-03-12T15:40:05-04:00

Given that I haven't played either of the games and just noticed the qualifiers being inconsistent I can't really give an opinion on the name issue but they should all follow the same rule (and if we go by the no surnames option the full names should be aliased to make it easier).

@7HS: This goes beyond qualifiers, but there's...

2020-03-12T02:49:24-04:00

This goes beyond qualifiers, but there's actually a second issue with PriConne character tags that could potentially be fixed at the same time.

As the wiki page mentions, the plot of Re:Dive is that an MMO has become reality, causing most of its players to have amnesia and believe they always lived in the fantasy world of the MMO. Only the goddess Ames and a few other NPCs are aware of the 'real world' and the characters' previous lives.

The majority of PriConne characters are currently tagged with their 'real world' names, like kusano yui. These names were displayed on the "character cards" used in the original Princess Connect game that shut down in 2015, such as post #3045074. (As you can see in that image, most of the characters also looked quite different in the real world.)

In Re:Dive, none of their characters use their surnames because they've forgotten them; the dreams of the real world fabricated by the goddess Ames are an exception, but she explicitly tells you she made them from the protagonist's memories, not the girls'. In some cases, they instead have different surnames in the world of Astraea; for example, toudou akino has become "Akino Wistaria."

Kokkoro has a separate tag for her real world appearance, natsume kokkoro (princess connect!) (a misspelling; her name in the real world was Kokoro.) Some other characters might as well, I haven't checked them all.

Because of this I would suggest ignoring all PriConne characters' surnames and updating their tags to the format firstname_(qualifier). I also don't think it's necessary to have separate tags for their real world appearance, but I don't feel as strongly about that and wouldn't complain if we kept them.

Edit: I've put together a BUR for this, but I'll wait for discussion before submitting it.

@Unbreakable: There are currently 16 character tags for the...

2020-03-11T22:48:59-04:00

There are currently 16 character tags for the Princess Connect! (and Re:Dive) copyright using a qualifier, the problem is that 10 of them uses (princess connect) and 6 of them uses (princess connect!). The most logical would be to change them all over to the latter (even though those are fewer) since that's the name of the copyright but two of the biggest tags uses different qualifiers which is Kyaru (Princess Connect) and Kokkoro (Princess Connect!).