Imply long braid -> braid

@DanbooruBot: The bulk update request #2433 (forum #164793)...

2020-06-02T20:39:05-04:00

The bulk update request #2433 (forum #164793) has been rejected by @DanbooruBot.

@DanbooruBot: This bulk update request has been rejected...

2020-06-02T20:39:05-04:00

This bulk update request has been rejected because it was not approved within 60 days.

@DanbooruBot: This bulk update request is pending automatic...

2020-05-28T21:10:07-04:00

This bulk update request is pending automatic rejection in 5 days.

@blindVigil: > iridescent_slime said: > > That's another...

2020-04-10T03:10:00-04:00

iridescent_slime said:

That's another problem with this tag. It contradicts our years-old definition of "long" as "reaching past the shoulders". Using two completely different definitions of "long" depending on whether or not the hair is braided is absolutely bonkers. We already have a tag for hair that reaches the butt: very_long_hair. There's no reason to make this more complicated than it has to be.

The point of the tag is for braids that are longer than the standard length of a braid. "Standard length" would probably vary depending on who you ask, but I'm sure it would average out. For me, I would expect the average braid to reach anywhere from above the shoulder down to the middle of the back. Anything longer than that would be "long" and I don't think consistency with other tags is the thing that matters most here. I certainly don't think it makes things complicated.

If it matters that much, then we can change the definition to match standard danbooru length definitions, though I really don't agree with doing so. Even if we do that, it still doesn't change the fact that any search that doesn't include long braid will be filled largely with posts that don't match.

Using the current definition:

1.) Braid+long hair is filled with Kirisame Marisa, Hong Meiling, Shirakami Fubuki, and plenty of other characters with long hair and short braids, as well as images of characters with short braids and additional characters with long hair, such as an image of Izayoi Sakuya together with Reisen Udongein Inaba.

2.) Braid+very long hair has the exact same problem.

3.) Replacing Braid with single braid in either search has the same problem, as well excluding any characters with multiple braids.

4.) Replacing braid with braided ponytail mostly works in the very long hair search, but the additional character issue persists, and the long hair search is messier, and it excludes anyone whose braid(s) don't include a ponytail, such as Purple Heart.

Using the danbooru standard for hair length:

1.) The previously listed characters fit in more cases, but are still often false positives, and the problem of multiple characters with different hairstyles still exists.

2.) Same as point 1.

3.) All the same problems as before.

4.) Works now for both searches, but still excludes characters whose braids don't include a ponytail, along with the persistent multiple character issue.

All of this said, even in the cases where Kirisame Marisa's braid reaches past her shoulders, that's not what I would be looking for if I was trying to find "long braids", nor would I be looking for things like post #3850430, and finding what I'm looking for is a lot harder without the tag.

I don't agree even the slightest with altering the tag's definition just to make it "consistent", I don't see how its current definition at all hinders any potential usage of it or creates conflict with other tags, nor is it difficult to understand. But deleting it entirely when no currently existing tags or combination of tags would find exactly what it's intended for without an unacceptable amount of noise is much less preferable.

@iridescent_slime: > blindVigil said: > > It would depend on how...

2020-04-10T01:28:43-04:00

blindVigil said:

It would depend on how you define "long" wouldn't it? The Long_braid wiki specifically suggests they should at least reach the butt, which I'm fairly sure the majority of braids don't do.

That's another problem with this tag. It contradicts our years-old definition of "long" as "reaching past the shoulders". Using two completely different definitions of "long" depending on whether or not the hair is braided is absolutely bonkers. We already have a tag for hair that reaches the butt: very_long_hair. There's no reason to make this more complicated than it has to be.

@blindVigil: > Hillside_Moose said: > > I'm wonder if it's...

2020-04-10T00:53:20-04:00

Hillside_Moose said:

I'm wonder if it's a good idea to alias long_braid -> braid, then use long_hair or very_long_hair to search for these longer-than-average braids. Most of these braids make up the bulk of the character's hair, so there shouldn't be any unusual false positives.

Hong Meiling and Kirisame Marisa are both characters with long hair and braids, but not long braids, they would fill up a search like that.

They're far from the only two examples, either.

@blindVigil: It would depend on how you define "long"...

2020-04-10T00:48:57-04:00

It would depend on how you define "long" wouldn't it? The Long_braid wiki specifically suggests they should at least reach the butt, which I'm fairly sure the majority of braids don't do. post #3757872 and post #3776636 definitely aren't long, even by a more lenient definition. The twin braids of Izayoi Sakuya and Hong Meiling certainly aren't long either, as far as most braids being long goes.

post #3276974 and post #3744494 are two examples of long braids that aren't ponytails.

@iridescent_slime: It's not just for single braids — folks are...

2020-04-10T00:45:30-04:00

It's not just for single braids — folks are using this tag for twin braids as well for characters like Cammy White and Usada Pekora.

This tag is kind of pointless. It's just braid long_hair, and when taggers ignore tags like single_braid in favor of this one, searching for these posts becomes a guessing game where you have to experiment with different combinations of tags to figure out which ones the tagger thought to use. It's a classic example of too many overlapping tags impeding search rather than enhancing it.

@Hillside_Moose: I'm wonder if it's a good idea to alias...

2020-04-10T00:35:38-04:00

I'm wonder if it's a good idea to alias long_braid -> braid, then use long_hair or very_long_hair to search for these longer-than-average braids. Most of these braids make up the bulk of the character's hair, so there shouldn't be any unusual false positives.

@evazion: Any more opinions on this? I would argue that...

2020-04-09T23:42:42-04:00

Any more opinions on this? I would argue that most braids are long and that in a lot of cases what this tag is really trying to accomplish is to tag braided ponytails. There's a tagging gap where there's no commonly accepted tag for long braided ponytails of the kind worn by characters like Astolfo or Jeanne d'Arc, so instead we end up with a mixture of single braid, long braid, and braided ponytail all being used for the same hairstyle.

@Guaro1238: [bur:2433] Reason: If we keep the tag long...

2020-04-03T08:41:05-04:00

The bulk update request #2433 has been rejected.

create implication long_braid -> braid

Reason: If we keep the tag long braid with almost 3k images, we should imply it to braid.

I´m open for a discussion, if we even need long braid as a tag.

EDIT: This bulk update request is pending automatic rejection in 5 days.

EDIT: This bulk update request has been rejected because it was not approved within 60 days.

EDIT: The bulk update request #2433 (forum #164793) has been rejected by @DanbooruBot.