Aliasing spice_and_wolf -> ookami_to_koushinryou.

Reason: Japanese name. Alias already exists and should be reversed, unless there's something I'm unaware of.

I knew someone would eventually suggest this and I hate you for doing it.

Hmm, looks like forum #15601 discussed several of these.

evazion said:
On the other hand, we have:

neon_genesis_evangelion not shin_seiki_evangelion
ghost_in_the_shell not kokaku_kidotai
spice_and_wolf not ookami_to_koushinryou
jojo's_bizarre_adventure not jojo_no_kimyou_na_bouken
full_metal_alchemist not hagane_no_renkinjutsushi
martian_successor_nadesico not kidou_senkan_nadeshiko
revolutionary_girl_utena not shoujo_kakumei_utena
etc. etc.

Two of those are already changed (we have jojo_no_kimyou_na_bouken and shoujo_kakumei_utena now). Seems like a trend.

This has probably been suggested a hundred times, but why not make an exception for copyrights that are given an English title by the creators, such as "Spice and Wolf" and "Hayate the Combat Butler"?

Is it because exceptions lead down that dreaded "slippery slope"?

Soljashy said:
This has probably been suggested a hundred times, but why not make an exception for copyrights that are given an English title by the creators

But is that really the case here? The original materials say "spicy wolf", not "spice and wolf", IIRC.

The official site is "www.spicy-wolf.com", but if you visit it you see both the titles 狼と香辛料 and "Spice and Wolf".

0xCCBA696 said:
Aliasing spice_and_wolf -> ookami_to_koushinryou.

Reason: Japanese name. Alias already exists and should be reversed, unless there's something I'm unaware of.

FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF

Let's not, consistency be damned.

The rule should be "If there's an acceptable english equivalent provided within the material keep it english"

http://s3.supload.com/free/snapshot20090519100815.jpg/view/
is where spice and wolf comes from.

Yeah, thats what I think as well.

Well, I'm not really against aliasing it to be honest but this one seems to have a few things going in favor of just leaving it alone. I'm fine either way so I don't mind just keeping it as is.

Log said:
The rule should be "If there's an acceptable english equivalent provided within the material keep it english"

http://s3.supload.com/free/snapshot20090519100815.jpg/view/
is where spice and wolf comes from.

Is that really enough? It's just an ED graphic, and on the website it's just a tiny subtitle under a huge 「狼と香辛料」. I was going by the Japanese Wikipedia article for 狼と香辛料, which doesn't contain the words "spice" or "wolf" at all. In contrast, "Neon Genesis EVANGELION" is prominently displayed at the top of the article on 新世紀エヴァンゲリオン.

Tons of anime have "English titles" that show up from time to time in official materials, but mainly just because of the "English is cool" factor. I still don't think that has any bearing on the fact that the series's name is 狼と香辛料 (ookami to koushinryou).

IMO, we shouldn't use English names unless they are so prominently displayed (in the original, of course) that it's clear they are supposed to be a primary name for the series, of equal or similar importance to the Japanese name (for example, "Neon Genesis Evangelion", "Fullmetal Alchemist", or what-have-you).

0xCCBA696 said:
I was going by the Japanese Wikipedia article for 狼と香辛料, which doesn't contain the words "spice" or "wolf" at all.

According to English Wikipedia, it literally translates to "Wolf and Spice". Since there's the 'subject spoken first' thing in Japanese, I guess it would be alright just to switch it around, especially since it sounds catchier. I believe the English title that is widely used stands.

0xCCBA696 said:
I was going by the Japanese Wikipedia article for 狼と香辛料, which doesn't contain the words "spice" or "wolf" at all.

Yes, because the Japanese Wikipedia artical so takes precedence over the official site and the show.

Can we please NOT alias every single anime series title that's already in english here to it's original Japanese.
1. Annoying spelling, not everyone memorizes it's original Japanese content and is going to want to type it up.
2. Either they're all the same (Kidou Senshi etc/Mahou Shoujo etc) or something completely different and just what? (like kokaku_kidotai)
3. WEEABOO SHIT

And if this offends you then I apologize before hand but it's more or less the truth.

Tokusatsu said:
Since there's the 'subject spoken first' thing in Japanese, I guess it would be alright just to switch it around

rofl

Fencedude said:
Yes, because the Japanese Wikipedia artical so takes precedence over the official site and the show.

maybe if you'd actually read what i said (ps it's "article")

also

Fencedude said:
Because "プル" is not Ple. I don't care what her shirt said in the show, its not.

hmm, so which is it?

Xephina said:
Can we please NOT alias every single anime series title that's already in english here to it's original Japanese.
1. Annoying spelling, not everyone memorizes it's original Japanese content and is going to want to type it up.
2. Either they're all the same (Kidou Senshi etc/Mahou Shoujo etc) or something completely different and just what? (like kokaku_kidotai)
3. WEEABOO SHIT

And if this offends you then I apologize before hand but it's more or less the truth.

1. ever heard of aliases?
2. lol
3. lol

BTW, evazion's misromanization aside, ghost in the shell is actually koukaku kidoutai.

OH GOD, IT'S LIKE I'M READING THE ZERUDA_NO_DENSETSU THREAD ALL OVER AGAIN.

I'm siding with the majority. As mentioned previously, not only is "Spice and Wolf" adopted in both the official website and the show, but "Ookami to Koushinryou" translates directly to "Spice and Wolf" anyway. This alias is purely cosmetic; there's no confusion to clarify, and nothing changes, aside from the name of the tag.

0xCCBA696 said:
Tons of anime have "English titles" that show up from time to time in official materials, but mainly just because of the "English is cool" factor. I still don't think that has any bearing on the fact that the series's name is 狼と香辛料 (ookami to koushinryou).

I wasn't ever denying that the proper title for the series is 狼と香辛料. Rather, I was looking for something that could potentially exempt Spice and Wolf from the rule regarding aliases to Japanese titles.

0xCCBA696 said:
IMO, we shouldn't use English names unless they are so prominently displayed (in the original, of course) that it's clear they are supposed to be a primary name for the series, of equal or similar importance to the Japanese name.

I would agree, but sometimes it feels as if we're taking this too far; as if the site is too "romaji-centric", if you'll excuse the term.

Most users know zilch about Japanese, after all, and in cases where series have an official English title (even though it's not the main title, as with "Spice and Wolf"), they are even less likely to know the Japanese name. I know there are aliases for these things, but what are we trying to do here? Educate them about the Japanese titles?

We might almost as well be using the kanji name (and yes, I know how you lot feel about kanji in tags – that's my point).

Thanks for actually reading what I wrote, Soljashy. That's always helpful in a discussion.

Soljashy said:
I wasn't ever denying that the proper title for the series is 狼と香辛料. Rather, I was looking for something that could potentially exempt Spice and Wolf from the rule regarding aliases to Japanese titles.

Sure, I don't think anyone is arguing that the title isn't 狼と香辛料. My main concern is consistency, and so looking for potential exemptions from a rule is pretty much the opposite of what I'd do.

Soljashy said:
I would agree, but sometimes it feels as if we're taking this too far; as if the site is too "romaji-centric", if you'll excuse the term.

Most users know zilch about Japanese, after all, and in cases where series have an official English title (even though it's not the main title, as with "Spice and Wolf"), they are even less likely to know the Japanese name. I know there are aliases for these things, but what are we trying to do here? Educate them about the Japanese titles?

We might almost as well be using the kanji name (and yes, I know how you lot feel about kanji in tags – that's my point).

If users were educated about the original Japanese title, I really couldn't consider that a bad thing. I wouldn't consider it my main reason for suggesting this and other such aliases, but it's a nice benefit.

But really if you all love English so much, by all means, let's use English names for every tag. Otherwise, I think we should try to stick to Japanese as much as possible.

My main rationale for choosing Japanese over English for tags is that English names are usually 1) unofficial; 2) non-unique; and 3) either appear not at all (in the case of Japanese works more obscure to the English-speaking community), or appear much later than the original name, and in several forms from which eventually one is "officialized" by a localization (which may itself be ambiguous due to multiple localizations, or just stupid due to, well, stupid localization, e.g. "rumbling hearts"). It is far easier to just choose the original name, which is generally set in stone since nobody releases works without titles, nor abruptly changes them later.

For most series represented on danbooru, this "original title" which is clearly presented, official, and will essentially never change, is in Japanese. Therefore I advocate using Japanese titles. I only see possible exceptions in things such as metal gear, black cat, etc. whose primary and original names (the ones by which the original work was known immediately upon its release) were in English, or where an English title is so pervasive that it is capable of overriding the original, Japanese name. I don't see either criterion applying to ookami_to_koushinryou, frankly.

Danbooru is a site centered around Japanese media. I think I've seen several older members argue here in the past (before people started screaming "WEEABOO" at each other) that policy shouldn't be constrained too much by the fact that people don't know Japanese, because frankly what do you expect from a site called "danbooru" and often updated with highly recent art from Japanese artists?

The reason we use romaji and not kanji is because it's relatively easy to romanize Japanese names and titles, in comparison with the amount of effort it would be for the entire userbase to learn to read Japanese. But bending rules and making the whole system inconsistent just because people like Xephina can't be bothered to remember the "annoying spelling" of Japanese words (especially when aliases allow people to use the english version 100% of the time anyway!) is taking it a little too far, IMO.

In any case, I have no objection to us switching over to using English titles instead, as long as we have a well-set-out and coherent set of guidelines along which to choose English titles for series. This must include series which are not well-known in the English-speaking community as well, such tenshi no inai 12-gatsu (which imo would sound horrible in English no matter how you translated it).

I hope I've convinced at least someone with this long rant, lol.

Hillside_Moose said:
OH GOD, IT'S LIKE I'M READING THE ZERUDA_NO_DENSETSU THREAD ALL OVER AGAIN.

This is disingenuous, since the OP of that post was suggesting an alias to zelda no densetsu, not zeruda no densetsu.

By the way, precedent about non-"main" English titles, IIRC (correct me if I'm wrong), is our alias dote up a cat → nekokawaigari.

0xCCBA696, as a programmer, I truly appreciate your want for consistency. I've read your arguments before, and I tend to agree with you.

I thought it was necessary for someone to play the devil's advocate here, though, seeing that official English titles provided with the Japanese names do not have those three problems you mentioned about localized titles (and you know, every rule has its exceptions).

By the way, on the topic of educating the userbase, I'd like to mention my longing for more kanji in the wiki sections. Even if the wiki for a character tag is empty, as long as the kanji for their name is there, I can find all I need to know...

maybe if you'd actually read what i said (ps it's "article")

Oh god, I'm SO sorry that my spelling isn't perfect after having been up for 22 hours. Jackass.