Insufficient tagging redux

@Eleven: I see where 葉月 is coming from. General tags...

2010-03-28T13:03:58-04:00

I see where 葉月 is coming from. General tags like the ones he used as an example are kind of useless for members or those who only have 2 tag search limits. Pics with specific are a lot easier to find than tags with a lot of general common tags.

Lets say I was looking for a picture of birdy_cephon_altirra but I have no idea who the character is. If I type in a general tag like Long_hair thighhighs, I'd get a bazzilion results but if someone tagged it based on specific features like Multicolored_hair leotard I'd find the picturein no time.

It may not be a policy shift but encouraging taggers to tag specifically as opposed to generally will be a lot helpful.

@Granola: > jxh2154 said: > If 9 tags is considered...

2010-03-28T10:00:51-04:00

jxh2154 said:
If 9 tags is considered insufficient enough to warrant public ridicule for you, you're probably going to spend a whole lot of your time on this site feeling irritated by almost every image you look at.

I think its mostly because Mr_GT uploads so many images and tags them like this.

Contributors are held to a different standard than the rest of users, and this particular contributor should be held to a different standard due to the volume of posts he has.

@DschingisKhan: > Cyberia-Mix said: > I've come to think that...

2010-03-28T01:02:02-04:00

Cyberia-Mix said:
I've come to think that danbooru as a whole grew the habit to tag characters' appearance and clothing rather than what the characters are actually doing...

I think this stems in large part from the relationship between what we know as tags and this abstract thing called an object. Most humans don't think in ontological terms at a high level.

Also, yes, things need tagged. I 'm generally frustrated when I can only get a few very common tags on something.

@jxh2154: If 9 tags is considered insufficient enough to...

2010-03-27T21:15:34-04:00

If 9 tags is considered insufficient enough to warrant public ridicule for you, you're probably going to spend a whole lot of your time on this site feeling irritated by almost every image you look at. The reason the policy doesn't change is because no change is feasible. Tagging veterans don't realize just how many facets of an image are not immediately obvious to an untrained eye (your specific example is a major uploader, but I'm looking at this broadly). And even if they do, figuring out what word we're using for the tag can be quite a feat.

The only hard and fast tagging RULE (i.e. something that can be enforced with punishment) we can make is to set a minimum, which we have. But recommendations can go well beyond that.

So if all you want to do is add a sentence or three in the wiki encouraging uploaders to tag their images thoroughly, I don't even think that that warrants a thread. Just go do it. It's not a "policy change" at all. We've always said throughout all these threads that while there is a minimum, going beyond that is to be encouraged, so I'm surprised it's not already in there (seems it's in howto:upload instead).

@Shinjidude: I think I've made it abundantly clear in the...

2010-03-27T21:08:17-04:00

I think I've made it abundantly clear in the past that I fully support this policy.

@Log: As long as you word it carefully to make it not...

2010-03-27T18:16:53-04:00

As long as you word it carefully to make it not sound like a policy shift or that people will be punished for not doing it go ahead and add it to howto:tag, howto:upload, or both because it's already been discussed to death in the past two threads where this came up.

@葉月: > Log said: > Every time you bring this up I...

2010-03-27T18:10:09-04:00

Log said:
Every time you bring this up I will point out that if you're going to punish people for not tagging you will have to punish albert first because he is by far the worst offender.

I can't do anything about albert. But that doesn't mean we should make it the enshrined policy, which is what's happened every time so far. And albert has acknowledged and accommodated for policies we have decided on before, but that won't happen while everone's opinion is "yeah, it's totally fine if you just slap some kirisame_marisa on it".

Besides, I didn't necessarily say anything about punishing. Just pointing it out to people and having it written in the wiki would be a good start, but I can't push a policy which jxh2154 says is fine to ignore. Thus I want this to be coordinated decision to change that and start requiring fuller tagging.

@Bloodletter: Definitely agree. Although I have to say the...

2010-03-27T17:05:13-04:00

Definitely agree. Although I have to say the given example's tags are much better than simply stamping on the copyright/character/artist tags and being done with it. For a Touhou image those tags may not be sufficient, but they are more significant to series with a less mind-numbing amount of posts attached to them.

@Cyberia-Mix: > 葉月 said: > And before somebody goes "so I...

2010-03-27T16:48:31-04:00

葉月 said:
And before somebody goes "so I need to invent tags for post #388625 now?", no, that's the entire point. We have more than enough untaggable pics already, which is why we positively want to tag all the ones that have some sticking points. (Though in all fairness, adding smile, braid and sketch to it wouldn't hurt).

hand_on_hat, hand_on_hip.
I've come to think that danbooru as a whole grew the habit to tag characters' appearance and clothing rather than what the characters are actually doing... maybe because this wasn't necessary before you could find thousands posts of the same character.
Now this has become pretty useful to distinguish posts that were tagged identically so far.

I'm very happy to see the gestures tag group that just popped out yesterday (had been adding the same tags myself in tag group:posture before it came out), and I hope characters actions/states/expressions continue to get more attention from taggers.

@Log: Every time you bring this up I will point out...

2010-03-27T14:35:44-04:00

Every time you bring this up I will point out that if you're going to punish people for not tagging you will have to punish albert first because he is by far the worst offender.

@aldeayeah: I've been doing this for a long time. I'm glad...

2010-03-27T13:44:10-04:00

I've been doing this for a long time. I'm glad it has become an "official policy".

@0xCCBA696: Agreed, of course.

2010-03-27T13:22:17-04:00

Agreed, of course.

@Dogenzaka: I always try to get every tag for my uploads,...

2010-03-27T13:18:06-04:00

I always try to get every tag for my uploads, but I usually miss one or two, so i'll try harder.

@Eleven: I'll keep this in mind when tagging and I agree...

2010-03-27T11:51:17-04:00

I'll keep this in mind when tagging and I agree with this. Looking at my uploads I've been guilty of this so I'll make a conscious effort to tag more specifically.

@葉月: Okay, I know we've discussed this before, but I...

2010-03-27T11:40:18-04:00

Okay, I know we've discussed this before, but I really think the stance of "whatever, as long as the copyright and character are tagged" is completely wrong. Exhibit: post #642770

This is the tag set after Mr_GT uploaded it:

? + – blue eyes 81076
? + – blue hair 47765
? + – hair bobbles 3414
? + – hat 59945
? + – kawashiro nitori 2559
? + – short hair 107740
? + – solo 63776
? + – touhou 117665
? + – twintails 49139

Notice how the least populated tag in this set has over 2.5k posts. This kind of tagging is damn useless. The picture has a metric buttload of fairly uncommon, easily-identifiable features. Cucumbers, bucket, shoe dangle, sweat, hot, bikini under clothes, screwdriver. But none of them were tagged, and thus none could be used to find it later.

Thus I will go, once again, against the current acceptable tagging policy. We should absolutely require all the easily identifiable, uncommon generic tags to be present in order to consider a picture properly tagged. And before somebody goes "so I need to invent tags for post #388625 now?", no, that's the entire point. We have more than enough untaggable pics already, which is why we positively want to tag all the ones that have some sticking points. (Though in all fairness, adding smile, braid and sketch to it wouldn't hurt).