Tag Discussion: Clone, Dual Persona, Multiple Persona

@Shinjidude: I'd say if there is an implication that a...

2011-04-08T04:18:34-04:00

I'd say if there is an implication that a character could interact with another version of themselves (two versions in the same scene), and nothing involving time paradox is going on, dual persona is appropriate, even if the costumes and personalities are the same.

Where multiple versions of a character with the same personality and costume exist, and no interaction should be expected to take place (there is no "scene", or there are just a bunch of character sketches), dual persona/multiple persona is not appropriate. Those sorts of images are typically tagged character sheet. I'd argue that your examples probably fall into this category.

@Bloodletter: Raising an issue I'm seeing with dual persona...

2011-04-08T00:27:35-04:00

Raising an issue I'm seeing with dual persona here and there.. I'm seeing posts like post #890366 and post #891603 which just has the same character depicted more than once in the same costume and no visible alternate persona getting tagged with persona tags. Honestly, I think even posts with multiple costumes should only be tagged dual/multiple persona if there's some kind of theme or contrast associated with it. Something like post #889830 (explicit), for example, doesn't seem like a case of multiple persona.

dual/multiple persona currently covers: canonical alternate personas (either secret/alternate identities or alternate personalities), fan-made personas with a large following (slightly varying miku clones), personas implied through contrasting colors or other themes, genderswaps...

I'd like some input on the three cases I linked and whether they should be tagged with *persona or something else. 1) Same character, same costume, no visible persona change. 2) Same character, same costume, different expressions but no obvious contrasting theme like good and evil. 3) Same character, different costumes, no visible persona change.

@Cyberia-Mix: > Flippernino said: > You're right. They're...

2011-03-24T18:16:16-04:00

Flippernino said:
You're right. They're separate characters, so it's not dual persona.

It's a 2nd Iku with another personality. Whether it's an actual persona or a fanon identical sister has no importance for tagging purposes. It makes much more sense to use dual_persona here rather than anything else.

@Yavie: Multiple_Persona = see split personality ...

2011-03-24T13:35:31-04:00

Multiple_Persona = see split personality

Dual_Persona = I.E they might have a secret identity like superman and Clark Kent. (both being shown next to each other in the same image)

Clone = the same character having been... cloned. I.E it has NOTHING to do with either Dual_persona or Multiple_persona.

@Flippernino: > Nials said: > Sorry for raising the topic...

2011-03-24T11:28:06-04:00

Nials said:
Sorry for raising the topic again, but should this really be tagged as dual-persona? post #783010

You're right. They're separate characters, so it's not dual persona.

@Nials: Sorry for raising the topic again, but should...

2011-03-21T17:29:15-04:00

Sorry for raising the topic again, but should this really be tagged as dual-persona? post #783010
Sure it's depicting the same character, but they're not meant to be one and same character.

@alegria: There seems to be something of a consensus that...

2011-03-15T18:37:50-04:00

There seems to be something of a consensus that clone = exactly the same. At least, no one's argued against it for several posts. If they're wearing different clothes, they're not exactly the same, so they're different personae.

Though come to think of it, "multiple copies that are exactly the same" and "actual clones" should probably be different tags. "Actual clones" is relationship meta-knowledge like brothers.

@reese: Clone wiki says > Two or more instances of the...

2011-03-15T18:20:35-04:00

Clone wiki says

Two or more instances of the same character in the same scene. The instances should be completely identical and wearing the same outfit.

Is that really a necessary requirement? Something about that part of the entry bugs me.

@alegria: Ok, I edited the wiki entries for clone,...

2011-03-15T15:56:35-04:00

Ok, I edited the wiki entries for clone, dual_persona and multiple_persona.

@jxh2154: > alegria said: Should clone be used in...

2011-03-15T15:17:28-04:00

alegria said: Should clone be used in conjunction with the *_persona tags?

Only if it fits both criteria somehow, or as NWF said if it's just ambiguous. Better to use both rather than neither in that case.

@NWF_Renim: I think there could be some gray areas where...

2011-03-15T15:00:17-04:00

I think there could be some gray areas where both a *_persona and a clone tag would be applicable, so I don't think they'll be truly mutually exclusive.

@jjj14: I think clone is for images where they look the...

2011-03-15T14:33:39-04:00

I think clone is for images where they look the same, and *_persona for images where different types of the character are depicted.

@alegria: Should clone be used in conjunction with the...

2011-03-15T13:19:10-04:00

Should clone be used in conjunction with the *_persona tags?

@jxh2154: Clone is distinct from the persona tags or time...

2011-03-15T07:23:17-04:00

Clone is distinct from the persona tags or time paradox so I don't want to alias it.

@EB: > reese said: > That's what time paradox is...

2011-03-11T17:58:43-05:00

reese said:
That's what time paradox is for.

time_paradox is not mutually exclusive with dual/multiple persona. They should both be tagged when there are multiple versions of the same character from different ages.

@S1eth: clone: exactly the same dual_persona: same...

2011-03-11T15:17:30-05:00

clone: exactly the same
dual_persona: same character, different looks/personality
is the status quo
dual_persona of an old and young version of a character also gets time_paradox.
Whether different clothes are enough for dual_persona... not for me.

Although you might sometimes think that "it makes sense for the clone to be younger".

@reese: > Mysterio006 said: > Persona should be used in...

2011-03-11T14:43:39-05:00

Mysterio006 said:
Persona should be used in cases of split personalities, or images showing a person at different time periods (alice_margatroid and alice_margatroid_(young), for example).

That's what time paradox is for.

To expand on what I said, look at post #62162 and post #787494. These two posts are clear examples of clone vs. *_persona. Only difference between most clone posts is that the clones of Puru are named (or numbered if you will). post #548539 is an example of the dual persona found in two characters.

@Mysterio006: I think I'll refine what I said further, by...

2011-03-11T14:24:51-05:00

I think I'll refine what I said further, by noting this:

Persona should be used in cases of split personalities, or images showing a person at different time periods (alice_margatroid and alice_margatroid_(young), for example).

Clones should be used in cases where an exact physical copy of a character exists at the same time.

Of course, there's bound to be blurred lines, where a persona actually manifests itself, for example. But I'd still consider that a dual persona. Just my opinion though.

@alegria: Mysteria & reese's definitions aren't even...

2011-03-11T13:56:41-05:00

Mysteria & reese's definitions aren't even close to each other and neither one matches the wiki definitions.

Mysteria: clone is for random copies
reese: *_persona is for random copies, clone is for actual clones

edit: EB posted before I finished. ^^
@EB: in that case, most of the clone images need to be changed to dual_persona or multiple_persona

@EB: They're really distinct concepts, though I...

2011-03-11T13:56:25-05:00

They're really distinct concepts, though I could get how it may be confusing when there's no canon explanation to use. Frankly, I wouldn't consider clone unless it's very clear that they are one (like a cloning lab being shown, stated by the author or the original story's canon, etc.). I think of dual/multiple persona as the more general tag for the situation but still separate from clone.