Tag Implication

@KeliraTelian: HAY GUISE LETS MAKE A NEW THREAD FOR THIS

2011-05-03T17:24:53-04:00

HAY GUISE

LETS MAKE A NEW THREAD FOR THIS

@rantuyetmai: > Pitch said: > You've made it a point in the...

2011-05-03T17:23:54-04:00

Pitch said:
You've made it a point in the past to change hundreds of tags at a time to add qualifiers that you felt were necessary with no outside input, failed to check whether a single one of the new tags was even a character in the picture at hand, and when alerted to the problem waited for several days before correcting a handful and leaving the rest as a problem for more helpful users. I think there's a good reason for us to be wary of your ideas for how tags need fixing.

I made a mistake in tag scripting query and did try correct it after you alerted me, was 2 days too long? If the fixing and checking were not thorough it was unintentional, my apology again. You can always dmail me "things still need fix" so that I'm aware.

If that mistake made you wary, I'll leave tagging policy alone from now on.

@Pitch: > rantuyetmai said: > I'm just a janitor, for...

2011-05-03T17:06:12-04:00

rantuyetmai said:
I'm just a janitor, for god's sake. Besides having approval ability, treat me like a privileged/contributor. Changing/editing everything is a pain which I'd leave it off to jxh, who has access to more convenient method. If I don't care what you guys think why would I make a thread to ask and waste my own time.

You've made it a point in the past to change hundreds of tags at a time to add qualifiers that you felt were necessary with no outside input, failed to check whether a single one of the new tags was even a character in the picture at hand, and when alerted to the problem waited for several days before correcting a handful and leaving the rest as a problem for more helpful users. I think there's a good reason for us to be wary of your ideas for how tags need fixing.

@Saladofstones: I'm not sure where to stand on this. The...

2011-05-03T16:56:23-04:00

I'm not sure where to stand on this.

The entire cosplay thing is odd to me, to me a character tag should only be used if that character is physically present, however, if we are going to tag characters as being present if they are being cosplayed, I don't see anything wrong with linking personas of that character with the appropriate character tag. Especially in cases like goddess_madoka.

@Shinjidude: > rantuyetmai said: > Going with the "base tag...

2011-05-03T16:16:56-04:00

rantuyetmai said:
Going with the "base tag as umbrella" logic, one would be interested to find Marine outfit when searching for Erika, no matter who wears it. That's the conflict.

That's an intentional side effect of the cosplay rule, where it's assumed that someone searching for a character will also be interested in anyone cosplaying as that character.

The Marine outfit *is* an outfit the character wears, so by that logic, cosplayers (whether cosplaying as Marine or as civilian Erika) should show up.

If someone absolutely doesn't want this behavior (for secret identities or otherwise), just add -cosplay to the search query.

@rantuyetmai: > Log said: > What does this even mean I don't...

2011-05-03T16:04:39-04:00

Log said:
What does this even mean I don't get what you're trying to argue here? Cure Marine IS Erika unless she's being cosplayed so...?

I mean Cure Marine-without-civilian Erika.

Log said:
cure_marine -Kurumi_Erika ONLY other people dressed as Marine.

Going with the "base tag as umbrella" logic, one would be interested to find Marine outfit when searching for Erika, no matter who wears it. That's the conflict.

@Log: > rantuyetmai said: > when finding cure...

2011-05-03T15:44:37-04:00

rantuyetmai said:
when finding cure marine-without-Erika when she's with a lot more characters.

What does this even mean I don't get what you're trying to argue here? Cure Marine IS Erika unless she's being cosplayed so...?

Assuming everything is tagged correctly
cure_marine Every post of Marine's outfit.
kurumi_erika cure_marine ONLY Marine as transformed erika.
Kurumi_erika -cure_marine Erika only when she's not transformed
cure_marine -Kurumi_Erika ONLY other people dressed as Marine.

@Shinjidude: Hmm, nothing to add, except that yes, we should...

2011-05-03T15:34:59-04:00

Hmm, nothing to add, except that yes, we should really try to be civil. It's pretty evident that no decision has been made to reverse precedent at this point. Even if some tags did get switched around, it'd be reversible (easily so in this case), and in no way a bannable offense.

@rantuyetmai: > Hillside_Moose said: > Strange, that's...

2011-05-03T15:29:48-04:00

Hillside_Moose said:
Strange, that's different from what you wrote several hours ago. About removing base characters tags off of alternate personae. Which I responded to.

Please read page 1 of this thread, where I ask everyone's opinions.

Hillside_Moose said:
And you'll have to forgive me for being hostile when your enthusiasm for changes makes me think you're going to go Leeroy Jenkins and edit everything.

I'm just a janitor, for god's sake. Besides having approval ability, treat me like a privileged/contributor. Changing/editing everything is a pain which I'd leave it off to jxh, who has access to more convenient method. If I don't care what you guys think why would I make a thread to ask and waste my own time.

@rantuyetmai: > ShadowbladeEdge said: > Dual Persona not good...

2011-05-03T15:22:07-04:00

ShadowbladeEdge said:
Dual Persona not good enough?

That solves the case when both persona present, but not when finding cure marine-without-Erika when she's with a lot more characters. I'm reminded by the discussion of snow/snowing all over again: if we're going to be specific as to separate that, why shouldn't we do the same here? The argument "if I'm looking for snow, of course posts with snowing should turn up as well" was rejected in favor of refined search - despite it being totally common sense.

@Hillside_Moose: Strange, that's different from what you wrote...

2011-05-03T15:20:04-04:00

Strange, that's different from what you wrote several hours ago. About removing base characters tags off of alternate personae. Which I responded to.

And you'll have to forgive me for being hostile when your enthusiasm for changes makes me think you're going to go Leeroy Jenkins and edit everything.

@rantuyetmai: > Hillside_Moose said: > We had four threads...

2011-05-03T15:03:15-04:00

Hillside_Moose said:
We had four threads discussing this already, but thanks for playing.

You change anything and I'll see to it that you get banned. A small amount of dissent does not imply a silent majority, just like a small amount of agreement does not imply a silent minority, or did you already forget Hazuki's rifyu fiasco?

Being hostile, aren't we? Did you actually read what I wrote?

rantuyetmai said:
May as well solve this now. How is everyone's opinion on the matter? Should images of solely magical girls (example: cure marine) include the normal name (kurumi erika) as well?

rantuyetmai said:
I take it that people who are quiet about this are okay with both direction?

Meaning there's no decision yet, and I'm asking if the ones keeping quiet mean they will go with whichever this thread got.

@Hillside_Moose: > rantuyetmai said: > There has never been an...

2011-05-03T14:47:38-04:00

rantuyetmai said:
There has never been an official decision what to do with magical girls and the like. We're discussing so that it's clear, and it's not only because of the cosplay.

We had four threads discussing this already, but thanks for playing.

I take it that people who are quiet about this are okay with both direction?

You change anything and I'll see to it that you get banned. A small amount of dissent does not imply a silent majority, just like a small amount of agreement does not imply a silent minority, or did you already forget Hazuki's rifyu fiasco?

@ShadowbladeEdge: > rantuyetmai said: > now you can look for...

2011-05-03T08:45:02-04:00

rantuyetmai said:
now you can look for posts where both identities are present without having to swim through hundreds of only transformed version.

Dual Persona not good enough?

@Shinjidude: What you are saying is that anyone interested...

2011-05-03T08:12:37-04:00

What you are saying is that anyone interested in finding images of a given character will be happier to look up a character's wiki, find the tags for their multiple personae / professions / roles and do multiple searches for each one rather than having one tag they can search or subscribe to to get all images featuring that character (who after all is the same person regardless of the role they appear as)?

That somehow doesn't sound like it should be the case. Yes, in your proposal searches will be smaller and more refined, but they'll also be more fragmented. If someone truly is interested in only one persona, they can always either use the tag for the persona, or in the case of the base character, that tag with the secret persona excluded.

As for quiet people, one should keep in mind that at least in the US, this about the time of year final exams occur. It wouldn't surprise me if many regulars will be off Danbooru for a few days.

@rantuyetmai: > Shinjidude said: > I'm against this, so long...

2011-05-03T03:48:27-04:00

Shinjidude said:
I'm against this, so long as a character's identity isn't a spoiler, it makes sense to keep at least one tag (generally the non-secret/base identity) as an umbrella tag for people searching for everything of that character.

Available alternate personalities can easily be sum up in the character's wiki. Those who know about the character will know who they want to search for. Separate tagging has a big advantage of refined search: now you can look for posts where both identities are present without having to swim through hundreds of only transformed version.

Shinjidude said:
People searching for the base identity are going to be interested in the specialized identity as well. That's how we've always done it, and there's good motivation behind it. Breaking that to enforce consistency with an unrelated rule is a bad idea.

As said, being interested in the character should lead you to the wiki page where it is explained what tag you can search for concerning that character. There's no harm for these people because clicking the linked tags lead them to everything, and it give a clearer idea exactly who they are looking at. On the other hand, it's tremendously harmful for those who need to find a very specific image but cannot because we lumped everything together. It'd be different if the base identity have its own tag, but most don't.

Hillside_Moose said:
Wow, really? We're going to break everything we've been doing for years just to fit this cosplay rule?

There has never been an official decision what to do with magical girls and the like. We're discussing so that it's clear, and it's not only because of the cosplay.

I take it that people who are quiet about this are okay with both direction?

@Shinjidude: I'm against this, so long as a character's...

2011-05-02T20:15:00-04:00

I'm against this, so long as a character's identity isn't a spoiler, it makes sense to keep at least one tag (generally the non-secret/base identity) as an umbrella tag for people searching for everything of that character.

People searching for the base identity are going to be interested in the specialized identity as well. That's how we've always done it, and there's good motivation behind it. Breaking that to enforce consistency with an unrelated rule is a bad idea.

@Hillside_Moose: Wow, really? We're going to break everything...

2011-05-02T18:57:34-04:00

Wow, really? We're going to break everything we've been doing for years just to fit this cosplay rule?

@rantuyetmai: Mmm... if we're going on the basis of look then...

2011-05-02T18:20:31-04:00

Mmm... if we're going on the basis of look then all Precure should not include their civilian name, same goes for goddess Madoka, same for ex-Keine too. That is "without the foreknowledge of who it was, you wouldn't even know they were one and the same going just off images." I'm okay with this. Shall we start with cleaning?

@NWF_Renim: Cure melody and Houjou Hibiki don't actually...

2011-05-02T18:04:25-04:00

Cure melody and Houjou Hibiki don't actually look alike, her transformation changes not only her outfit, but hair and eye color as well. Without the foreknowledge of who it was, you wouldn't even know they were one and the same going just off images.

Cosplaying as cure melody would do nothing to make the character look like Houjou Hibiki.