Tag Implication: 90s -> oldschool

@DanbooruBot: The bulk update request #1924 (forum #153743)...

2019-03-07T19:02:08-05:00

The bulk update request #1924 (forum #153743) has been rejected by @DanbooruBot.

@DanbooruBot: This bulk update request has been rejected...

2019-03-07T19:02:08-05:00

This bulk update request has been rejected because it was not approved within 60 days.

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2019-03-02T19:02:21-05:00

This bulk update request is pending automatic rejection in 5 days.

@Lacrimosa: > feline_lump said: > > Again, why? Popular...

2019-01-12T00:27:11-05:00

feline_lump said:

Again, why? Popular tag requires gardening once every 10 years = instanuke?

I think it's bad to keep this as an umbrella tag.
Posts with the 90s tag uploaded back in 2007 aren't considered oldschool by the time they were uploaded.
I know I'm repeating myself, but if you search for oldschool posts uploaded in 2007 you don't really expect 90s posts.

In today's standard the implication looks fine but since Danbooru is older than just a few years it turns into a rather bad idea, imo.

@feline_lump: > tapnek said: > > After some deliberating, if...

2019-01-12T00:20:31-05:00

tapnek said:

After some deliberating, if our perceptions of what is oldschool are gonna change over time, maybe the tag should be nuked and the wiki be turned into a disambiguation page.

Again, why? Popular tag requires gardening once every 10 years = instanuke?

@tapnek: After some deliberating, if our perceptions of...

2019-01-11T23:59:19-05:00

After some deliberating, if our perceptions of what is oldschool are gonna change over time, maybe the tag should be nuked and the wiki be turned into a disambiguation page.

@feline_lump: > iridescent_slime said: > > Oldschool...

2019-01-11T22:53:18-05:00

iridescent_slime said:

Oldschool comprises multiple art styles that don't have much in common besides their age. It's already an ambiguous tag to begin with and it's getting more ambiguous with the passage of time. Does this not strike you as problematic?

I don't see it. People will want to search for content that is "old"/nostalgic (see how ridiculously populated おっさんホイホイ is on both Pixiv and Nicovideo), and due to the passage of time, what qualifies is constantly shifting forward. As long as there's some kind of standard for updating the tag in place, it's a matter of regular housekeeping, not ambiguity.

@evazion: > feline_lump said: > > Naming suggestion:...

2019-01-11T19:24:26-05:00

feline_lump said:

Naming suggestion: 1980s (style) or 1980s (artstyle), and 1980s (culture); replace with other decades as appropriate.

I'd prefer 1980s (style) for consistency with the *_(style) tags we use for artist style parodies.

Lacrimosa said:

I wonder...
If people look for the oldschool, wouldn't they expect to find posts that were already conceived as oldschool when they were uploaded?

Oldschool is an umbrella tag for anything drawn in a retro style. That can include both style parodies and posts that really were drawn in the 90s or earlier. Style parody can (and should) be used to distinguish between the two.

tapnek said:

It could be a pool, but it would need strict guidelines so that it wouldn't be flooded with anything that looks like it's from the 90s and before.

Pools don't really do anything to solve the problem of subjectivity. And anyway, I wouldn't say the 70s / 80s / 90s tags are subjective - most things I see under those tags are pretty clearly drawn in older styles.

@iridescent_slime: > feline_lump said: > > Why not? Sometimes...

2019-01-11T16:39:14-05:00

feline_lump said:

Why not? Sometimes tags become outdated. See also the topics debating absurdres (based on a benchmark resolution that was absurd over a decade ago but isn't now). Based on the timing of this discussion, I think a tentative solution would be to consider illustrations that are over ~20 years old "oldschool".

Oldschool comprises multiple art styles that don't have much in common besides their age. It's already an ambiguous tag to begin with and it's getting more ambiguous with the passage of time. Does this not strike you as problematic?

@feline_lump: > Lacrimosa said: > > I wonder... > If people...

2019-01-11T15:35:33-05:00

Lacrimosa said:

I wonder...
If people look for the oldschool, wouldn't they expect to find posts that were already conceived as oldschool when they were uploaded?
In other words, is a 90s post uploaded in 2007 really oldschool by the time it was uploaded (apparently not) and wouldn't these posts water down the meaning of "oldschool" during that period when 80s posts and earlier only were considered oldschool?

I don't think this matters much. The elimination of the flagging grandfather clause establishes a favorable precedent towards using current guidelines regardless of when the image was uploaded.

iridescent_slime said:

If the concept of "oldschool" is a subjective thing that, by definition, changes over time, maybe it shouldn't be a tag.

Why not? Sometimes tags become outdated. See also the topics debating absurdres (based on a benchmark resolution that was absurd over a decade ago but isn't now). Based on the timing of this discussion, I think a tentative solution would be to consider illustrations that are over ~20 years old "oldschool".

@tapnek: It could be a pool, but it would need strict...

2019-01-11T13:15:56-05:00

It could be a pool, but it would need strict guidelines so that it wouldn't be flooded with anything that looks like it's from the 90s and before.

@iridescent_slime: If the concept of "oldschool" is a subjective...

2019-01-11T06:01:54-05:00

If the concept of "oldschool" is a subjective thing that, by definition, changes over time, maybe it shouldn't be a tag.

@Lacrimosa: I wonder... If people look for the oldschool,...

2019-01-10T17:28:07-05:00

I wonder...
If people look for the oldschool, wouldn't they expect to find posts that were already conceived as oldschool when they were uploaded?
In other words, is a 90s post uploaded in 2007 really oldschool by the time it was uploaded (apparently not) and wouldn't these posts water down the meaning of "oldschool" during that period when 80s posts and earlier only were considered oldschool?

@Rampardos: these tags don't need parenthesis. we normally...

2019-01-09T09:11:22-05:00

these tags don't need parenthesis. we normally use that style of qualifier for trademarked or copyrighted things to make it clear that the extra detail being added isn't actually part of the name. in this case it's purely a descriptive tag named for our own purposes, so there's nothing to confuse. it'd be like tagging something sweater_(red) instead of just red_sweater.

@GabrielWB: Going though the period tags, we have: Time...

2019-01-08T22:10:23-05:00

Going though the period tags, we have:

Time Period	#
20s	8
30s	49
40s	6
50s	34
60s	161
70s	622
80s	2477
90s	4094

I assume this will be the plan:
First just renaming all the current tags to the new format:

alias 20s -> 1920s_artstyle
alias 30s -> 1930s_artstyle
alias 40s -> 1940s_artstyle
alias 50s -> 1950s_artstyle
alias 60s -> 1960s_artstyle
alias 70s -> 1970s_artstyle
alias 80s -> 1980s_artstyle
alias 90s -> 1990s_artstyle

Followed by the implication of oldschool. Considering we don't have a 00s tag yet, I guess this will just apply to all current time period tags. Or should it be limited to the 1960's and up?

imply 1920s_artstyle -> oldschool
imply 1930s_artstyle -> oldschool
imply 1940s_artstyle -> oldschool
imply 1950s_artstyle -> oldschool
✂----cut along line if needed---
imply 1960s_artstyle -> oldschool
imply 1970s_artstyle -> oldschool
imply 1980s_artstyle -> oldschool
imply 1990s_artstyle -> oldschool

The 19XX_culture tags will have to be populated manually I think.

Edit:
Makes sense to drop the parenthesis.

@Kikimaru: > feline_lump said: > > Naming suggestion:...

2019-01-07T17:05:32-05:00

feline_lump said:

Naming suggestion: 1980s (style) or 1980s (artstyle), and 1980s (culture); replace with other decades as appropriate.

At some point we'll have to figure out what to do when widespread 2000s nostalgia kicks in, since that intersects with the first 5 years of our database...

+1 to artstyle & culture tags.

@chilled_sake: Well it wasn't my intent to lock-in the style...

2019-01-07T11:06:28-05:00

Well it wasn't my intent to lock-in the style to manga, just to suggest a tag. I agree it should be inclusive of non-manga styles, a further distinction between manga and western or whatever isn't needed, and isn't feasible considering we don't do it for posts in general. For styles, 1980s_artstyle (art_style?) I guess is the best but still wanting. For the time period, something that encapsulates the culture general era would be good if people have suggestions.

Definitely agree on having these years include the full year, how else will I find pictures from the 1880s?

But I'm wondering if there's something wrong to the approach. Will we in a decade mass update everything from now to a 2000s and 2010s tag?

@feline_lump: Naming suggestion: 1980s (style) or 1980s...

2019-01-07T11:04:24-05:00

Naming suggestion: 1980s (style) or 1980s (artstyle), and 1980s (culture); replace with other decades as appropriate.

At some point we'll have to figure out what to do when widespread 2000s nostalgia kicks in, since that intersects with the first 5 years of our database...

@GabrielWB: There are also images like post #2861735 for...

2019-01-07T10:55:59-05:00

There are also images like post #2861735 for example that are based on a Western artstyle from a time period, so using 80s_(style_of_manga) might not be completely fitting.

I don't see the need for seperating western and eastern artstyle at this point, so how about something along the lines of the_1970s for the cultural time period and 1970s_style or 1970s_artstyle for the drawing style perhaps?

I would also propose to rename any period related tags to use the full year. So 1980s instead of 80s.
20s currently has a massive amount of 8 posts, but 2020 is less than a year away at this point.

@chilled_sake: Not sure about the implication, but while on...

2019-01-07T08:11:38-05:00

Not sure about the implication, but while on the topic it seems like those tags are being used without much precision. Although the wiki clearly says those period tags (60s, 70s, 80s) are for the manga/anime style of that time, they're clearly being used for things merely popular at that time like specific shows or cultural things. Should there be anything done to address this, like maybe changing the tags to 80s_(style_of_manga) or just let the tags be a catch-all for style, popular culture, and the period that a copyright was popular? I'm in favor of making the tags explicitly for style only and as per my general philosophy on tags I think the best way to enforce this is changing the name of the tags.