About tags: pokemon games

@Danielx21: Well, if Danbooru really has that rule, then I...

2012-03-28T15:26:06-04:00

Well, if Danbooru really has that rule, then I guess we won't have the Pokémon implication, after all. (even if I argued that that would be a bad rule in practice)

OK. I don't endorse that, but I'd accept that if that's what people want to do.

Mind you, it still bothers me that your justifications are along the lines "that's so obvious! we have been doing this the whole time! So it works for every copyright." instead of "I weighed what you said against some opposite rationale and the opposite rationale is better for this reason"

"Exceptions are possible" is not an argument; it's a simple assertion, much like "Images of Oichi wearing an eyepatch while riding a triceratops are possible". An argument would be "Exceptions are possible AND we should make sure they are findable this way, not this other way, BECAUSE..." but you don't have to answer that, because (while I do believe that the best way to come up with rules for a community is discussing and properly justifying them; and that you are failing to do that, or simply don't want to do that in the first place) I can't force this democratic reasoning; and I already said what I wanted. Either it's enough, or it's not.

@NWF_Renim: Crossovers are pretty much guaranteed to cause...

2012-03-28T13:57:01-04:00

Crossovers are pretty much guaranteed to cause "exceptions," and so it's much easier to prevent it causing a mess by requiring manual tagging. Cleaning up after an implication like that is made and then has to be axed in the end is more tedious and time consuming than simply requiring manual tagging for them to begin with.

From my understanding we don't implicate crossover titles, and we're not going to make some special exception for this title.

@Danielx21: "[P]eople who chronically blurt implications"....

2012-03-28T08:11:22-04:00

"[P]eople who chronically blurt implications". You mean, seriously? Or you said that just to offend me randomly? Your tone is condescending. Just because my stance is different from yours does not mean I don't understand yours.

I am saying nothing of Kingdom Hearts, Final Fantasy and Disney. I am not building a big but simplistic system where all imaginagle posts of all conceivable copyrights fit perfectly and without further considerations; that's what you are trying to do, apparently.

If, in the future, exceptions happen — AND are interesting to us, which I can't guarantee at this point; AND the search -pokemon /pny is meaningful; AND /pny is not enough; AND the exception is worth the trouble of breaking pokemon with one additional layer of complexity to know and remember —, THEN the proposed implication "pokemon_+_nobunaga_no_yabou -> pokemon_(game)" may be revisited. At some point, the pokemon tag got divided into anime, each game, all games together, each manga, so you can still choose the stories that you want and don't want to see.

If you upload fifty images of the female protagonist nude tomorrow, it would be very convenient to be able to find them either by looking through the hundreds of posts of pokemon nude or (assuming the "/pny" shortcut will exist, in the future) the more specific /pny nude. -pokemon /ppny would not be feasible or intuitive at this point. I like how you can find her posts within the results of other generic big searches, such as pokemon brown_hair, pokemon japanese_clothes and pokemon 1girl. If, contrariwise, you really dislike her and her friends (but why?), try -/pny pokemon when the shortcut becomes available.

@Hillside_Moose: I already went over why crossover games are a...

2012-03-28T06:11:20-04:00

I already went over why crossover games are a different breed from spin-offs, but let's try a different approach. By your logic, kingdom_hearts should get implicated to final_fantasy and disney, since it's a crossover game and every original character from Kingdom Hearts is also a Disney and Final Fantasy character by definition, right? That's the gist of what I'm getting. It's also wrong.

The current batch of posts might have a human with a Pokemon. The characters might even wear Pokemon-themed clothing. That doesn't mean exceptions will never exist, such as the Protagonist being alone and/or nude. This is what people who chronically blurt implications always fail to realize.

@Danielx21: I did not say that P+NY is a Pokémon game and...

2012-03-28T03:54:56-04:00

I did not say that P+NY is a Pokémon game and not a Nobunaga no Yabou game. I said that P+NY posts should be tagged pokemon and pokemon_(game) while I don't particularly care if they are tagged nobunaga_no_yabou as well. I don't use (or I seldom use) the latter, so I don't want to feel more responsible than necessary about it.

(Although I do acknowledge that, if they are tagged pokemon in the first place, then tagging them nobunaga_no_yabou would be consistent.)

"Pokémon + Nobunaga no Yabou" is a crossover game; it is, also, a Pokémon game. Importantly, it is extensively filled with Pokémon characters. Even the new human characters are strongly associated with Pokémon, as they have Pokémon partners. In this aspect, they are similar with mint_(pokemon), hinata_(pokemon) and characters of pokemon_md (and the protagonist of Pokémon Snap, but I didn't find him in any images), among others, as they divert very much from the theme of the original series, — while keeping some concepts, such as the Pokémon species themselves and some or all of their attacks — while they are still tagged pokemon.

"Cherry picking" is not bad, but the idea of NOT tagging them pokemon is bad cherry picking by itself; I already said why. (but I'm not ignoring your rebuttal, as I am replying to it in this very message) Moreover, at this moment, there are only a few P+NY posts and all of them are of humans together with Pokémon; therefore, they should be tagged pokemon and pokemon_(game), anyway, even if that exception took place. So, they don't produce any "noise", even for someone who for some reason wants to search pokemon while avoiding images of P+NY. However, that avoidance is unlikely, to begin with. Since Pokémon is a huge tag (the 11th most used copyright tag, with 12776 posts) and a catch-all tag, the reasoning behind that search would be "I would like to see thousands of posts of a lot of related media with varying importance (counting five main game storylines, the anime, one major manga, the 10+ movies, 5+ minor mangas, 3+ spin-off games and some recurring fanon material, like "pixiv trainer" and "ErlSana Playhouse"), EXCEPT this game."

An additional problem: post #1060780 has Oichi and a Jigglypuff. Since it has the latter, should it be tagged only pokemon, or pokemon_(game) as well? I'm not very fond of the Pokémon game tag, but of course it should. Another thing taggable pokemon is the Poké Ball symbol that decorates the girl's clothes more than twice.

@Hillside_Moose: Pokemon + Nobunaga no Yabou isn't a mere...

2012-03-27T23:06:46-04:00

Pokemon + Nobunaga no Yabou isn't a mere Pokemon game. It is its own game with its own characters that borrows characters from two other franchises. If there are posts with just P+NY-exclusive characters and no Pokemon/Nobunaga characters in sight, all the pokemon and nobunaga_no_yabou implications do is add avoidable noise for people that search those tags but don't care for pokemon_+_nobunaga_no_yabou.

And no cherry picking implications. If you're going to argue that it's a Pokemon game, then it's just as much a Nobunaga game as well.

@Danielx21: That "no-go" is not so obvious. It would even...

2012-03-27T21:21:17-04:00

That "no-go" is not so obvious. It would even be harmful, so please reconsider it.

If we actually decide that female_protagonist_(pokemon_+_nobunaga_no_yabou) should not be tagged Pokémon, it would raise these problems, among others:

She has an Eevee and has been depicted together with it.

If a post with her and Eevee get tagged pokemon, people would deduce that the tag applies to her as well, as she is de facto a character in a game of that franchise.
If a post with her and Eevee don't get tagged pokemon, then the tradition of using that tag for all creatures would be broken. All Eevees, all Kabutos, all Charmanders, etc. are tagged pokemon.

As I said, the tag pokemon_(game) is already a catch-all for games of Pokémon. It follows that the tag pokemon is a catch-all for Pokémon games and all other media, such as mangas and the anime. Many Pokémon characters are from different universes that don't ever overlap, such as pokemon_mystery_dungeon and pokemon_special. They get pokemon anyway.

I'm not actively defending the implication to nobunaga_no_yabou, because I don't care much about the other series. I'm a tagger of Pokémon.

@Hillside_Moose: If the protagonist is exclusive to...

2012-03-26T05:14:19-04:00

If the protagonist is exclusive to pokemon_+_nobunaga_no_yabou, then even the pokemon implication is a no-go, not just nobunaga_no_yabou.

@lxs: I don't really know much about the two games,...

2012-03-25T13:29:58-04:00

I don't really know much about the two games, but the protagonist isn't from Nobunaga no Yabou, from what I understand. That was the only part I wasn't really sure about

@Danielx21: We have pokemon and pokemon_(game); the latter...

2012-03-25T03:46:21-04:00

We have pokemon and pokemon_(game); the latter is an umbrella tag for all the Pokémon games. And Pokémon + Nobunaga no Yabou is a game.

So, it would be safe to do...

create implication pokemon_+_nobunaga_no_yabou -> pokemon_(game)

(EDIT:
Removed "create implication pokemon_+_nobunaga_no_yabou -> nobunaga_no_yabou". As said in my later messages, the different copyrights may have reasons to be treated differently.)

@lxs: pokemon_+_nobunaga_no_yabou needs an...

2012-03-24T20:38:19-04:00

pokemon_+_nobunaga_no_yabou needs an implication to pokemon

Not sure if it should get an implication to nobunaga_no_yabou though

@jxh2154: Done

2012-03-20T18:21:43-04:00

Done

@Danielx21: Two more, please: create alias pokemon_fr&lg...

2012-03-20T08:38:31-04:00

Two more, please:

create alias pokemon_fr&lg -> pokemon_rgby
create alias pokemon_hg&ss -> pokemon_gsc

@Danielx21: > Rampardos said: > No point in making that...

2012-02-26T12:40:26-05:00

Rampardos said:
No point in making that call just yet, too early to know what kind of new content there will be.

I agree with Rampardos.

To elaborate:

If they are remakes with basically the same characters, Gym Leaders, Pokémons, storyline, places, items, starters, legendaries, etc. (like Emerald or FireRed or even Crystal), then I think they should be merged.

If the new games are something entirely new, like a "6th Generation" (with new characters, and so on) then they could have a separate tag.

@Rampardos: No point in making that call just yet, too...

2012-02-26T11:14:33-05:00

No point in making that call just yet, too early to know what kind of new content there will be.

@Famenag: Now that Pokémon Black and White 2 have been...

2012-02-26T10:50:22-05:00

Now that Pokémon Black and White 2 have been announced, should there be a seperate tag for them (pokemon_bw2), or should they be tagged pokemon_bw?

@jxh2154: Did: create alias pokemon_d&p -> pokemon_dppt...

2012-02-25T01:55:37-05:00

Did:
create alias pokemon_d&p -> pokemon_dppt
create alias pokemon_r&g -> pokemon_rgby
create alias pokemon_rg -> pokemon_rgby
create alias pokemon_rb -> pokemon_rgby

@Danielx21: Now all the five tags got good wikis:...

2012-02-12T17:54:37-05:00

Now all the five tags got good wikis: pokemon_rgby, pokemon_gsc, pokemon_rse, pokemon_dppt, pokemon_bw.

Related aliases:

create alias pokemon_d&p -> pokemon_dppt
("Pokémon D&P" is a very common name, that for some reason I didn't mention before.)

create alias pokemon_r&g -> pokemon_rgby
create alias pokemon_rg -> pokemon_rgby
create alias pokemon_rb -> pokemon_rgby
(Frankly, these seem to be rare abbreviations in running text, but I do think they make good aliases nonetheless, for orthogonality. People use much more "Pokémon R&B" and "Pokémon RGBY" than "Pokémon RB", a fact I know by my own personal experience and double-checked with Google. For comparison, the name "Pokémon Red and Blue" is extremely common in English as the first pair of games released in America, while "Pokémon Red and Green" is less but very commonly mentioned, as the first pair of games released in Japan.)

These four new aliases would finish this set:

EDIT:

Some wording, some expansion.

@Danielx21: Looks great. Thank you.

2012-02-08T03:23:52-05:00

Looks great. Thank you.

@jxh2154: Think that's fixed now

2012-02-07T17:46:47-05:00

Think that's fixed now