About pool #5826

@Lunatic6: > Pyrolight said: > I forget which pool are we...

2012-07-25T19:53:59-04:00

Pyrolight said:
I forget which pool are we talking about again?

Uh, to let you back on the topic, we're talking about what should we do to pool #5826: Heroes Gallery.

@user_358670: > Rampardos said: > The only reason Reimu did...

2012-07-25T09:01:54-04:00

Rampardos said:
The only reason Reimu did anything was because Yukari made her. She didn't care about the moon. Her intentions were hardly more noble, but that's the whole joke about Touhou and its protagonists. They have questionable motivations.

Reimu gets involved with the story in a Heroic way even if her initial motivations were suspect.

Also, Remilia wasn't "helping the heroes." As with most Touhou games, only the party you choose heads out to investigate, the others do nothing. In fact, in Imperishable Night, if you pick Remilia's party then you have to actually fight Reimu, the heroine.

I never said she was it was a comparison of the overall stories.

Also the fact you fight Reimu shows that she was doing something with regards to the story, she came to the wrong conclusion.

Lastly either through interaction in the game or Zun's writings outside of the games, the other protagonists are generally involved.

You team just is the one that does the heavy lifting.

So yeah, she goes out for her own gain, but generally, so does everyone else in Touhou, which was my point. Remilia is about as heroic as any other protagonist in the series.

Same as first point.

Reimu does become heroic (cares about the incident eventually), Remilia does not.

Anyway, this is getting off topic. The pool seems pretty sorted out, though.

I forget which pool are we talking about again?

@Rampardos: > Pyrolight said: > What I was sotra getting at...

2012-07-24T19:07:05-04:00

Pyrolight said:
What I was sotra getting at in a way. If you assume Reimu is the hero you can look at Remilia in IN and say her intentions were far from heroic.

I saw her more as a Rogue helping the Heroes simply for her own gain.

The only reason Reimu did anything was because Yukari made her. She didn't care about the moon. Her intentions were hardly more noble, but that's the whole joke about Touhou and its protagonists. They have questionable motivations.

Also, Remilia wasn't "helping the heroes." As with most Touhou games, only the party you choose heads out to investigate, the others do nothing. In fact, in Imperishable Night, if you pick Remilia's party then you have to actually fight Reimu, the heroine.

So yeah, she goes out for her own gain, but generally, so does everyone else in Touhou, which was my point. Remilia is about as heroic as any other protagonist in the series.

Anyway, this is getting off topic. The pool seems pretty sorted out, though.

@user_358670: > Serlo said: > > No, I wouldn't say so....

2012-07-24T16:31:41-04:00

Serlo said:

No, I wouldn't say so. Anyway, you're setting yourself up for complications with games based on animes and animes based on games.

I was generally leaning in that direction myself before even considering the issue of game <-> anime.

Seems like it would just cause trouble.

@Serlo: Agreed, not all video game protagonists are...

2012-07-24T16:02:54-04:00

Agreed, not all video game protagonists are heroes (in fact this extends to all protagonists). A protagonist is merely a main character; the story often follows the protagonist's point of view, but that's not essential. To be a hero, a protagonist needs to act heroically in a story.

But drivers in racing games, wild pokemon and the like generally aren't part of a story, so are not heroes. The Touhou characters and the Lucky Star cast are protagonists, but they aren't really heroes. The GTA and Black Lagoon casts certainly aren't heroes, in fact they're anti-heroes, but still protagonists.

Pyrolight said:
Is there any value in the distinction between playable heroes (games) vs anime ones?

No, I wouldn't say so. Anyway, you're setting yourself up for complications with games based on animes and animes based on games.

@user_358670: > Rampardos said: > Just because Remilia and...

2012-07-24T15:44:42-04:00

Rampardos said:
Just because Remilia and Sakuya were villains in one game doesn't mean that they are forever villains. They were fighting against the bad in Imperishable Night. That makes them the heroes in that game.

A better reason for why it doesn't work is that the heroes in Touhou aren't actually that heroic (and the villains not that villainous), so they wouldn't necessarily fit in the pool. Playable Command on the other hand is literally just a gathering of protagonists. There's still potential for overlap, though.

What I was sotra getting at in a way. If you assume Reimu is the hero you can look at Remilia in IN and say her intentions were far from heroic.

I saw her more as a Rogue helping the Heroes simply for her own gain.

Either way I agree it is a pretty specific example.

For me now the question is:

Is there any value in the distinction between playable heroes (games) vs anime ones?

@Rampardos: > Pyrolight said: > Well to be fair Playable...

2012-07-24T01:32:30-04:00

Pyrolight said:
Well to be fair Playable Command is different since you could arguably have both Heroes and Rogues aka Imperishable Night.

Just because Remilia and Sakuya were villains in one game doesn't mean that they are forever villains. They were fighting against the bad in Imperishable Night. That makes them the heroes in that game.

A better reason for why it doesn't work is that the heroes in Touhou aren't actually that heroic (and the villains not that villainous), so they wouldn't necessarily fit in the pool. Playable Command on the other hand is literally just a gathering of protagonists. There's still potential for overlap, though.

@Lunatic6: So what about this for description: > A...

2012-07-22T20:03:53-04:00

So what about this for description:

A meaningful gathering of heroic characters, opposing the pool #1450 (not to be confuse with pool #2194 and pool #5397).

Since 'protagonists' like said, is too ambiguous.

(EDIT since Rampardos suggestion sounds good)

PS: I won't change the description for now just in case of more suggestions.

@user_358670: > Rampardos said: > > Other than that, I don't...

2012-07-22T15:06:26-04:00

Rampardos said:

Other than that, I don't see why the pool can't overlap with other pools. Also, Touhou shouldn't be excluded. If Playable Command can be described as "a touhou version of this" then it doesn't need to exist. It's a very general concept anyway.

Well to be fair Playable Command is different since you could arguably have both Heroes and Rogues aka Imperishable Night.

On the topic one could consider both Rogue's Gallery and Hero's Gallery to be sorta "poster art"/lineup.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/ff/BATMANROUGUESUNDERGROUND.png

As an example.

Give it a more specific theme.

I think that is the general intent of a rogue's gallery anyway.

@Rampardos: You shouldn't use a very broad generalizing...

2012-07-22T14:08:41-04:00

You shouldn't use a very broad generalizing word like "protagonist" if you only mean a heroic character. Protagonist as a word is used because it's about the role, not the type of character. From what I can gather you meant for the pool to be more like "A meaningful gathering of heroic characters."

Other than that, I don't see why the pool can't overlap with other pools. Also, Touhou shouldn't be excluded. If Playable Command can be described as "a touhou version of this" then it doesn't need to exist. It's a very general concept anyway.

@Lunatic6: Well I would like to do that, but I let that...

2012-07-21T20:37:42-04:00

Well I would like to do that, but I let that happen... it will allow every image that having a group of 2 or more main characters (either on the same series or crossovers).

The flaws that I found:

post #851104: They are all protagonists of their own series but I don't see any sign of heroism or anything else (contradicting about the name of the pool).

Any tag that involving connections (either company_connection, seiyuu_connection, creator_connection, season_connection) which are having their main protagonists are together in the same image can be included to the pool.

post #843882: They are all protagonists, but the way I can see is they having a pitiful situation on there own (again it contradicts about the title).

This pool can be mistakenly identify as pool #2194 or pool #5397, well it is the exact opposite of pool #1450.

There is a touhou version of this (pool #2233: Touhou - Playable Command), so posts like post #582745 would not be allowed in here.

In other words, this pool can be easily be flooded by images just because they have 2 or more main protagonists in it.

@user_267184: > Lunatic6 said: > It's about pool #5826:...

2012-07-21T06:01:33-04:00

Lunatic6 said:
It's about pool #5826: Heroes Gallery

Though I'm not requesting for a removal of the pool, (since I find this useful) but the description is kind a ambiguous. Probably needs some changes.

Any good suggestions?

Just call it the antithesis of pool #1450.

@Lunatic6: It's about pool #5826: Heroes Gallery Though...

2012-07-21T05:26:52-04:00

It's about pool #5826: Heroes Gallery

Though I'm not requesting for a removal of the pool, (since I find this useful) but the description is kind a ambiguous. Probably needs some changes.

Any good suggestions?