Concerning Spoilers

@Shinjidude: Yes, I think what's being said here is that for...

2013-01-31T10:33:13-05:00

Yes, I think what's being said here is that for the vast majority of series, time is irrelevant to spoilers. The only real exception would be where knowledge of a franchise saturates the general public (or in this case the average Danbooru user), as I mentioned with Star Wars above (which virtually everyone has seen, and has had 36 years to become common knowlege).

So for Danbooru's public it's a pretty sure thing that everyone here knows "Aeris dies", but then that was another super popular franchise that has had 16 years to saturate the general populace. Very few franchises reach that level of saturation such that it becomes difficult to find people who don't know the spoiler. For series that haven't yet likely been seen by a large proportion of our user-base (most series), no amount of time will cause a spoiler's knowledge to saturate.

For example, even Puella Magi Madoka Magica - which was probably one of the most popular series during its run, and one which has had almost 2 years to percolate - I would still say it's very likely that a sizable proportion of Danbooru's audience would still be adversely affected by spoilers within, and they would ruin the series for people who hadn't yet seen it.

@Action_Kamen: > Log said: > No, we really don't.I don't...

2013-01-31T10:20:40-05:00

Log said:
No, we really don't.

I don't understand. Are you saying we shouldn't make a time based criteria for the spoiler tag, because that's what I'm suggesting.

@Log: No, we really don't. If you don't want to use...

2013-01-30T09:17:26-05:00

No, we really don't. If you don't want to use the tag don't but don't demand that it gets perpetually removed from images it still applies to just because time has passed. A spoiler is a spoiler.

@Action_Kamen: @ Serlo and Jxh2154 For consistent...

2013-01-30T09:15:21-05:00

@ Serlo and Jxh2154

For consistent organizational purposes we need a time frame and we're going to have to arbitrarily pick one and stick to it. I'm suggesting something not too long so we won't have cases of posts being tagged spoiler even after months have passed and inertial interests in the show has died down.

@jxh2154: > Action_Kamen said: I don't even think we need...

2013-01-29T17:59:27-05:00

Action_Kamen said: I don't even think we need a spoiler tag for anything that isn't currently airing.

This would be incorrect. It doesn't stop being a spoiler just because the initial broadcast ended.

@Shinjidude: We need to be conservative with spoilers. Err...

2013-01-29T11:32:41-05:00

We need to be conservative with spoilers. Err on the side of caution and tag spoilers as such unless: 1. it is basically universal cultural knowledge (i.e. Luke Skywalker & Darth Vader), but be 100% sure that this is the case. 2. It is something that will be "spoiled" for the viewer reader extremely early in the storyline. It's better to be too cautious and use the tag where it may not apply than to miss it and ruin a series for someone who hasn't gotten around to seeing something. The same criteria should be considered before removing the spoiler tag from something.

@Serlo: > Toks said: > So you expect everyone on the...

2013-01-29T10:26:26-05:00

Toks said:
So you expect everyone on the site to have read/watched every series in existence except for those that aren't finished yet?

Let's not start throwing loaded questions around; that's how discussions degrade.

Action_Kamen said:
The thread's about how long spoilers can stay spoilers before moving into the domain of general knowledge.

Strictly speaking, spoilers are spoilers for time immemorial, be they common knowledge or not. You're mistaken in thinking that a spoiler stops becoming a spoiler once it's well known.

The double-suicide of Romeo and Juliet is still strictly a spoiler, despite the play basically being part of our literary culture, because the play was not written with the intention of the audience knowing this whilst they watched the play. However, it's so well know that it isn't worth marking it a spoiler, because it's unlikely to actually save the ending for anyone.

Action_Kamen said:
I don't think we have to bend over backwards for the sake of a few late readers.

It's a question of how friendly to these readers you want to be and this is exactly what about:spoilers is trying to convey. It doesn't make this explicit, but in emphasising how important marking spoilers are, it was implying it.

There are some purist that think that we should snap our spines for spoilers, but I don't think even danbooru insists anyone go that far. However, danbooru does insist you go further than those who have no consideration for new readers that pick up a story after most of the fanbase has finished it, whether they didn't get around to it at the time or are new to the genre.

So different people have different views towards this, but on Danbooru you take spoilers as far as the rest of us do and that means making plots safe for everyone that comes to this site.

@Toks: > Action_Kamen said: > The thread's about how...

2013-01-29T09:12:21-05:00

Action_Kamen said:
The thread's about how long spoilers can stay spoilers before moving into the domain of general knowledge.

Let us start with a time line. Spoilers are spoilers while the media is being produced. Once the story is concluded and all the information made available is released to the public then the spoilers become public knowledge.

I don't think we have to bend over backwards for the sake of a few late readers.

Oh and spoilers:Shirou is the Redman

So you expect everyone on the site to have read/watched every series in existence except for those that aren't finished yet?

@Action_Kamen: > Serlo said: > That's in complete disagreement...

2013-01-29T09:08:20-05:00

Serlo said:
That's in complete disagreement with danbooru's policy.

The thread's about how long spoilers can stay spoilers before moving into the domain of general knowledge.

Let us start with a time line. Spoilers are spoilers while the media is being produced. Once the story is concluded and all the information made available is released to the public then the spoilers become public knowledge.

I don't think we have to bend over backwards for the sake of a few late readers.

Oh and spoilers:Shirou is the Redman

@jjj14: Actually, I'm in favor of tagging spoilers on...

2013-01-28T11:46:49-05:00

Actually, I'm in favor of tagging spoilers on even widely-known things like Rosebud/Luke's father/Soylent green/Aerith. They are still major plot revelations, and people may wish to avoid them or search for them. They can't effectively do either one if they aren't tagged as spoilers.

I mean, imagine if we stopped tagging Mario because "hey everybody already knows Mario, so we shouldn't need to tag pics he's in". It's kind of like that.

@Serlo: > Action_Kamen said: > I don't even think we...

2013-01-28T10:14:43-05:00

Action_Kamen said:
I don't even think we need a spoiler tag for anything that isn't currently airing.

That's in complete disagreement with danbooru's policy. I think the wiki page needs to be brought up at this point.

about:spoilers says:
Spoilers can ruin one's desire to continue or finish a particular series or even cause that person to give up on following a canon entirely. All users on Danbooru are required to protect interests in the storyline of any piece of work.

@Action_Kamen: I don't even think we need a spoiler tag for...

2013-01-28T10:07:55-05:00

I don't even think we need a spoiler tag for anything that isn't currently airing.

@Nials: Sorry for the late answer, been having net...

2013-01-28T07:25:28-05:00

Sorry for the late answer, been having net problems for over a month now.

I guess as you say, it's better to stick to an undefined definition, also in accordance to the few ideas of guidelines you suggested.
It's just that, for myself, spoilers aren't actually a problem but instead makes you want to find out how something happened so I basically got a backward problem with spoilers.

@Log: It has to be an objective measurement. You...

2013-01-24T23:52:36-05:00

It has to be an objective measurement. You shouldn't have to search the web to figure out how well-spread an event is to determine if it's worthy of spoiler use.

Something like beyond these measuring points:

The first 1/4 of a (visual) novel/movie.
The first book in a light novel series.
The first half of the first book in a proper novel (Harry Potter) series.
The first hour of a game. The first 1/4 of a game if it's total length is less than 5 hours.

That or just use the metric of "would I be pissed if I hadn't accessed this media and was spoiled on it beforehand" like we have been.

@aldeayeah: It's very hard to draw the line. What about...

2013-01-24T23:09:54-05:00

It's very hard to draw the line. What about stuff like Saber being King Arthur?

@jjj14: I don't think "age of source" should be the...

2013-01-24T18:24:27-05:00

I don't think "age of source" should be the only criteria. Rosebud/Luke's father/Soylent green/Aerith are all extremely common and well known even outside of those fanbases. However, what about plot points of more obscure (read "not uber-widespread") anime or games from decades past? I think those would definitely fall under spoilers.

So basically I agree with Pyrolight/Alignn.

@Tetsamaru: Luke...I am your father!!! Rosebud!!!!! ...

2013-01-24T15:42:28-05:00

Luke...I am your father!!! Rosebud!!!!!

Honestly, unless it's downright ancient, tag it with spoilers.

@user_358670: Honestly I would say the second one still would...

2013-01-24T12:38:17-05:00

Honestly I would say the second one still would be a spoiler in its full context.

Any major plot point to me is a spoiler unless it is plastered all over the place in mainstream media.

@S1eth: Unless it's on Soilent Green / Aeris Dies...

2013-01-24T12:08:01-05:00

Unless it's on Soilent Green / Aeris Dies level, tag it with spoiler.

@Nials: That is also another way to look at it. I am...

2013-01-24T11:07:58-05:00

That is also another way to look at it.
I am still concerned about what to consider a spoiler or not though, since knowing how well known a spoiler is can be hard to measure.