*_school_swimsuit tags

@jxh2154: Did: create implication purple_school_swimsuit...

2013-08-25T18:35:39-04:00

Did:
create implication purple_school_swimsuit -> school_swimsuit
create alias /acss -> alternate_color_school_swimsuit

@Benit149: Still need purple_school_swimsuit ->...

2013-08-12T18:47:04-04:00

Still need purple_school_swimsuit -> school_swimsuit implication at least.

An /acss -> alternate_color_school_swimsuit alias would be great as a shortcut too.

@jxh2154: Did: create implication black_school_swimsuit...

2013-08-12T17:07:53-04:00

Did:
create implication black_school_swimsuit -> school_swimsuit
create implication alternate_color_school_swimsuit -> school_swimsuit
create alias pink_school_swimsuit -> alternate_color_school_swimsuit
create alias red_school_swimsuit -> alternate_color_school_swimsuit
create alias yellow_school_swimsuit -> alternate_color_school_swimsuit
create alias brown_school_swimsuit -> alternate_color_school_swimsuit
create alias green_school_swimsuit -> alternate_color_school_swimsuit
create alias grey_school_swimsuit -> alternate_color_school_swimsuit
create alias orange_school_swimsuit -> alternate_color_school_swimsuit

Holding off due to disagreements:
purple_school_swimsuit -> alternate_color_school_swimsuit

@EB: > Benit149 said: > > Yeah, I sometimes saw...

2013-08-09T06:30:18-04:00

Benit149 said:

Yeah, I sometimes saw competition swimsuits mixed in with school swimsuits if I didn't notice the flap, which begs the question if there should be a cleanup in that area too.

There are types of school swimsuits without the flap. I was thinking #3 there (as seen in post #1479142) may be distinct enough for a separate tag like competition_school_swimsuit, though. Always unsure how to tag those. They're plainer-looking than the usual competition swimsuit.

@NWF_Renim: In the case of purple, I was trying to emphasis...

2013-08-09T05:40:39-04:00

In the case of purple, I was trying to emphasis that it should not be under under the alternate color tag. It is well within the "fudge factor" color range of what would be used for the standard color (with exceptions of the lighter purples). For those that would light enough to be abnormal I think manually tagging alternate color for them would be better.

@Benit149: > What EB said. Also school swimsuits usually...

2013-08-09T04:42:19-04:00

What EB said. Also school swimsuits usually have seams(?) that stand out (post #387402 as an example) which is a better identifier IMO than the presence of the name tag.

Yeah, I sometimes saw competition swimsuits mixed in with school swimsuits if I didn't notice the flap, which begs the question if there should be a cleanup in that area too.

That reminds me, there's a sukumizu_flap tag, but shouldn't it be a sukumizu_flap -> school_swimsuit_flap alias since we're not using the Japanese word?

If you're suggesting about a level in which a color should be independent from the alternate color school swimsuit tag, I think regardless of posts count for a color the colors should still be kept under the alternate color school swimsuit tag. I believe the point is that they encapsulate colors that wouldn't be used normally (though do they really use white?), but I do think if they had a rather large post count it wouldn't be a bad idea to have them with a tag that implicates the alternate_color_school_swimsuit tag.

I agree. Even though purple is a surprisingly common color I've been seeing on Danbooru, that doesn't necessarily mean it's an existing color in actual schools. It makes me wonder from a cultural standpoint if someone from Japan would look at purple_school_swimsuit and think, "It should be under alternate_color_school_swimsuit because we don't have that here."

@NWF_Renim: > Benit149 said: > > I was surprised by the...

2013-08-08T21:15:53-04:00

Benit149 said:

I was surprised by the number of purple_school_swimsuit posts as well, but it's possible that the lighting in the image could be causing a regular school_swimsuit to look purple or indigo, such as in post #5786. Anyway, should there be a minimum post count before a school swimsuit color can be considered 'normal'? I got black up to almost 1000, white has 2000+, but purple only has over 100. Would you consider at least 100 posts to be acceptable enough to avoid the alias? If it is, then I'll remove it and make a purple_school_swimsuit -> school_swimsuit implication.

I wouldn't use a number level to define what is and isn't a "normal" color (with the exception of white) and instead say the colors are hard fixed as blue to dark blue (light blue excluded), purple to dark purple (light purple excluded), and black. In short the colors that would be naturally used by the schools (or at least the colors commonly depicted in their media). Another part of this is both lighting and even your screen color settings can make these colors become mixed as well.

If you're suggesting about a level in which a color should be independent from the alternate color school swimsuit tag, I think regardless of posts count for a color the colors should still be kept under the alternate color school swimsuit tag. I believe the point is that they encapsulate colors that wouldn't be used normally (though do they really use white?), but I do think if they had a rather large post count it wouldn't be a bad idea to have them with a tag that implicates the alternate_color_school_swimsuit tag.

Kikimaru said:

No nametag == regular swimsuit.

What EB said. Also school swimsuits usually have seams(?) that stand out (post #387402 as an example) which is a better identifier IMO than the presence of the name tag.

@EB: > Kikimaru said: > > No nametag == regular...

2013-08-08T19:30:06-04:00

Kikimaru said:

No nametag == regular swimsuit.

School swimsuits don't always have a nametag. If it doesn't bear any particular resemblance to the common styles of school swimsuits I wouldn't tag it as such, though. Catherine Kyoubashi's looks like something I would tag competition_swimsuit.

@Kikimaru: > Benit149 said: > > Also a quick question: Is...

2013-08-08T19:00:58-04:00

Benit149 said:

Also a quick question: Is Catherine Kyoubashi's swimsuit considered a red_school_swimsuit or just a plain red_swimsuit?

No nametag == regular swimsuit.

@Benit149: > When this tag wasn't populated I didn't think...

2013-08-08T16:00:27-04:00

When this tag wasn't populated I didn't think this would be a problem, but given now what is in there after you started to populate the tag, I'm also going to have to be against this alias as well. This tag is essentially covering what would be normal school swimsuits, and shouldn't be under the alternate color school swimsuit tag.

I was surprised by the number of purple_school_swimsuit posts as well, but it's possible that the lighting in the image could be causing a regular school_swimsuit to look purple or indigo, such as in post #5786. Anyway, should there be a minimum post count before a school swimsuit color can be considered 'normal'? I got black up to almost 1000, white has 2000+, but purple only has over 100. Would you consider at least 100 posts to be acceptable enough to avoid the alias? If it is, then I'll remove it and make a purple_school_swimsuit -> school_swimsuit implication.

As for your wording for black in allowing removal, it should be pointed out like all color overlaps, when in doubt you're supposed to tag both colors you think it is.

Changed my WIP wiki to reflect using both colors. But I find this a little difficult to implement because we don't have a navy_blue_school_swimsuit tag to act as a separate color tag should a post need both a navy blue + black, or navy blue + purple color combination.

I also added to the WIP that if the color is just too vague to identify, the school_swimsuit tag can just be used. Sometimes it's just impossible to tell the difference between certain colors, so that's an alternative.

Also a quick question: Is Catherine Kyoubashi's swimsuit considered a red_school_swimsuit or just a plain red_swimsuit?

@S1eth: > NWF_Renim said: > This tag is essentially...

2013-08-08T15:40:25-04:00

NWF_Renim said:
This tag is essentially covering what would be normal school swimsuits, and shouldn't be under the alternate color school swimsuit tag.

With a few exceptions such as post #526871, they all look blue to me.

@NWF_Renim: > Benit149 said: > > Alias the following: > >...

2013-08-08T15:32:00-04:00

Benit149 said:

Alias the following:

purple_school_swimsuit -> alternate_color_school_swimsuit

When this tag wasn't populated I didn't think this would be a problem, but given now what is in there after you started to populate the tag, I'm also going to have to be against this alias as well. This tag is essentially covering what would be normal school swimsuits, and shouldn't be under the alternate color school swimsuit tag.

As for your wording for black in allowing removal, it should be pointed out like all color overlaps, when in doubt you're supposed to tag both colors you think it is.

@Benit149: Then I'll remove the alias. But I think it...

2013-08-08T08:19:23-04:00

Then I'll remove the alias. But I think it would be helpful if black_school_swimsuit was a little more populated in order to make it a better tag as a normal colored school swimsuit. The way it's tagged right now, it looks like a rarer color.

EDIT: Oh yes, if the black swimsuit is going to be a separate tag, then we'll need the black_school_swimsuit -> school_swimsuit implication as well. Adding it to my list.

EDIT 2: I want to write the wiki for black_school_swimsuit, but first I want to be sure I clarify the subjective nature between black and navy blue:

"A school swimsuit that is colored black.

This tag easily overlaps with the regular navy blue school_swimsuit or the purple_school_swimsuit, so it is difficult to differentiate between the three colors. A good rule of thumb to use is to tag any colors you can see, so for example in post #1478204, it could either be navy blue or black, so you could use both the regular school_swimsuit and the black_school_swimsuit tags in this post. Alternately, you can just stick to the school_swimsuit tag if the color is too ambiguous."

@EB: > Elfenus said: > > So, black_school_swimsuit...

2013-08-08T00:10:08-04:00

Elfenus said:

So, black_school_swimsuit should be left out as a single tag or aliased to school_swimsuit?

I think it should be left out as a single tag because pure black school swimsuits are rarer compared to the blue or navy-colored school swimsuits and it will allow them to be more easily searched.

@Elfenus: So, black_school_swimsuit should be left out as...

2013-08-07T21:39:47-04:00

So, black_school_swimsuit should be left out as a single tag or aliased to school_swimsuit?

@NWF_Renim: Issue is more between normal colors versus...

2013-08-07T17:13:43-04:00

Issue is more between normal colors versus non-normal colors. Sure comparing black will be tricky against navy blue or dark purple, but the thing is those colors aren't getting tagged. They're in the color range that will just be labelled "normal" and will not receive the alternate_color_school_swimsuit tag (or any color tag for that matter) to begin with. Black should be left out not simply because of the overlap with the normal colors, but because its a color that really doesn't belong under the alternate_color_school_swimsuit tag with the other colors. It is a standard color (despite not being populated as a tag, though perhaps made worse due to minimal visual difference from the norm) and would be an oddball lumped with the other colors going under the alternate color tag.

@Benit149: As far as black vs. navy blue goes, I think...

2013-08-07T14:44:00-04:00

As far as black vs. navy blue goes, I think it's best just to stick to our judgment the same way we do with orange_hair vs. brown_hair, or pink_hair vs. lavender_hair, and similar colors that tend to overlap one another. The black_school_swimsuit alias could be removed from the list if desired, but again it's a tricky color to compare against other dark colors like navy blue or deep purple, like how hair, eye and legwear colors are argued.

@Elfenus: > EB said: > Navy blue tends to be considered...

2013-08-07T13:46:24-04:00

EB said:
Navy blue tends to be considered "black" here, particularly with legwear tagging

Although legwear is another topic, for consistency it could be relevant.
Second, if what you're saying were true, there would be a lot more black_school_swimsuit posts, which it isn't the case. I think it's the other way around and black swimsuits are been tagged as blue...well... are tagged only as school_swimsuit.

Either way, I'm going with what Benit said.

@EB: Navy blue tends to be considered "black" here,...

2013-07-29T13:33:08-04:00

Navy blue tends to be considered "black" here, particularly with legwear tagging. I'm always hesitant to tag navy-colored socks as "black legwear", but it's common and not sure if a separate tag for navy blue would be supported.

@NWF_Renim: > Benit149 said: > > black_school_swimsuit ->...

2013-07-29T11:23:41-04:00

Benit149 said:

black_school_swimsuit -> alternate_color_school_swimsuit

While it isn't that populated, I think this should be one of the exceptions and left out of the alias/implication. Of the colors I think its one that is most likely to be a real uniform color besides white and blue/navy, and I think there is enough potential visual overlap with the navy blue to make it aliasing/implying the alternate_color_school_swimsuit tag to cause problems.

Benit149 said:

So should the following be aliases or implications?

I believe the overall objective is that they'll be aliased to the tag.