Except for that part where she botches admiral. Because it's so good up to that, it just makes the mispronunciation of admiral so jarring. I would take Kongou's random English thrown in over being startled by Warspite's "admiral" any day.
Except for that part where she botches admiral. Because it's so good up to that, it just makes the mispronunciation of admiral so jarring. I would take Kongou's random English thrown in over being startled by Warspite's "admiral" any day.
I'm so used to seeing that stereotyped engrish everywhere that I can easily overlook such mispronunciation. Jarring to me is Iowa acting like a pornstar.
Except for that part where she botches admiral. Because it's so good up to that, it just makes the mispronunciation of admiral so jarring. I would take Kongou's random English thrown in over being startled by Warspite's "admiral" any day.
I listened to Warspite's voice clips and they aren't that bad. For what the seiyuu does with her english, for the first few times it is a little jarring, I can get used to it if she's acting as the secretary. (Sadly I'll most likely never build/get her since I gave up the browser version of the game)
Except for that part where she botches admiral. Because it's so good up to that, it just makes the mispronunciation of admiral so jarring. I would take Kongou's random English thrown in over being startled by Warspite's "admiral" any day.
Everything except for "Admiral" is fine and having a 99% success rate is very good in my book. I mean I liked Iowa's design but I was massively disappointed by her voice, but I chalked it up to "lol Japanese people can't bother with foreign languages." But then Warspite came along and showed that yes, JP voice actors CAN speak good (enough) English when they try.
That alone makes Warspite completely worth getting. And I can let the "Admiral" thing slide because of it.
(And to be honest Iowa's "Admiral" is like ten times worse...)
Silly Admiral, white girls don't like Japanese guys.
Seriously, cut out the racism crap. Every one of your comments is anti western racist nonsense. I'm surprised you haven't been banned or warned at this point.
That dictionary doesn't seem to have a pronunciation key? Others have done similar research, only to find the ad-my-ral pronunciation is incorrect. It comes closer to "ad-mee-ral".
Kancolle's Warspite represents the BB built in the 1910s, not the 16th-century wood and sail gun ship. The pronunciation of "admiral" as we know it had long been established by the time she went into service. It just doesn't make sense for her to use such an archaic pronunciation, save for it being a weird character quirk, or it just being a pronunciation flub (the simplest, and most likely explanation IMO).
Trust me, I thought the same as you and wanted to believe there was a reason behind for such a mispronunciation, when everything else is so perfect... there probably isn't ;_;
Trust me, I thought the same as you and wanted to believe there was a reason behind for such a mispronunciation, when everything else is so perfect... there probably isn't ;_;
Let's pretend she's mistakenly accurate and leave it at that. :)
I haven't personally insulted anyone here so I don't see why I should be banned for my views. Sounds like it's a personal problem on your end.
Not personally but generally to whole races/nations. I think everything should be allowed to make fun of but you are being just downright rude and offensive, there is no humor/satire/sarcasm behind what you comment.
It's all on you if you want to interpret it as cheeky breeky as you can. I'm just calling out things as they are.
I, for example, have seen enough mixed couples to understand your calling out of things is totally false and only in your head. Now, if you read the commenting guide it states:
Racism is not tolerated. Even in jest. This includes any malicious or disparaging comment about an ethnicity. Comments that are insulting to a particular sex or sexual orientation are also frowned upon.
Anyway, I'll report your profile plus pointing special notice on your previously deleted comments and let the moderators handle this... I just need to figure out how. Maybe do I need to revive topic #2567 ? Not so sure yet.
Except for that part where she botches admiral. Because it's so good up to that, it just makes the mispronunciation of admiral so jarring. I would take Kongou's random English thrown in over being startled by Warspite's "admiral" any day.
To everyone: The admiral ad-my-ral and the other admiral is different.
The ad-my-ral one is for officer or magistrate that has the government of the king's navy; the chief commander of fleet; the ship that which carries the admiral.
So Warspite's pronunciations is correct despite how old the term's pronunciation. So can we stop fighting and bickering and enjoy the fact that Warspite is cute as fuck and speaks well pronounced english? BTW she's my favorite ship now
Also I can't see Hueyhuey's comment anymore, is he banned now?
I have a theory about this. 'ad-MY-ral' would be correct Middle English pronunciation (see page 21 of this dictionary) and there have been several Warspites, going all the way back to 1596.
Could they be saying that this Warspite is the same spirit that inhabited the 16th century Warspite?
The dictionary lists "admirail" (pg 7) and "amirail". No pronunciation key was given. I don't know where you get the pronunciation from. The dictionary is intended to be more of a etymological guide (and it lists admirail as "see amirail" and "amirail" to be of Old French origin.
There is a cursory mention in the preface (page viii) about vowel qualities, which would indicate that the i is pronounced as a short 'ee' sound, if we follow Old English, or a long 'ee' sound, if we follow Middle English (which itself is inconsistent in its pronunciation). Following Old French would result in an "ee" sound as well.
In any case, following any of the above 'patterns' of reading the word would result in pronouncing the word as AHD-mee-rail or ahd-mee-rail (with or without stress). Note that the ae sound is spelled differently in the same book, and diphthongs like 'ai' are mostly clearly stated), with ee being either short (like the i in "his") or long, AND NOT "ad-MY-ral".
In any case, IF the word is intended to be pronounced as ad-MY-ral, then why isn't it spelled as admairail or amairail? They already did the same for the last syllable.
And in any case, the Old French word itself is derived from Arabic "amīr al-baḥr" أَمِير اَلْبَحْر , pronounced roughly as "ah-meer ahl-bahr" (I'm not that good at Arabic, so I appreciate if someone fluent in it could chime in), roughly "Commander of the Sea". Squish the first three syllables together, and you get amiral.
Uhjinhyuk55 said:
To everyone: The admiral ad-my-ral and the other admiral is different.
The ad-my-ral one is for officer or magistrate that has the government of the king's navy; the chief commander of fleet; the ship that which carries the admiral.
So Warspite's pronunciations is correct despite how old the term's pronunciation. So can we stop fighting and bickering and enjoy the fact that Warspite is cute as fuck and speaks well pronounced english? BTW she's my favorite ship now
Also I can't see Hueyhuey's comment anymore, is he banned now?
The closest I can get, can't find link. Buddy you are a hard person to please
Ah yes, that particular snippet cut out-of-context from Sheridan's dictionary. Had a feeling it was that. Getting sick of that image getting copypasted all the friggin' time on the interwebs, really. I've already posted a rebuttal some time ago, so here we go again:
NNescio said:
[Citation needed]
And if you're going by the image harped upon on Reddit and provided by Sumeragi earlier, it is from the "A complete dictionary of the English language, : both with regard to sound and meaning" by Thomas Sheridan, Volume I (1790 edition). Page ix indicates clearly that "y" in the pronunciation guide indicates a short 'ee' sound. The diphtong 'ai' is indicated by "i" with a 2 over it (2nd sound of i) instead, as indicated on Page iii of the same book.
The pronunciation entry for 'admiral' is /a(1)d'-my(1)-ra(1)l'/. This is pronounced as "ÆD-mee-ræl" (æ is like the a in hat), with the ee being short, with stress on the first syllable.
Compare this to the pronunciation entry for 'admire' (on the SAME FRIGGIN' page, really), which is indicated as /a(1)d-mi(2)'re/. This is pronounced as "æd-MAI-uh". The location of the stress is even completely different.
Anybody using that image as 'proof' is either ignorant or ACADEMICALLY DISHONEST, because it's abundantly clear that (the first two syllables of) admiral WAS NOT pronounced the same as admire, since it's listed ON THE SAME FRIGGIN' PAGE with a different pronunciation key. You don't even have to refer to the explanations for the pronunciation keys on Page iii and ix.
(Whoever first snipped that image completely out of context is academically dishonest, in any case).
Here's the book, incidentally. CTRL-F to look for "admiral" or "admire". Scroll over to Page iii and ix to confirm the pronunciations of y(1) and i(2).
Interesting, the book is "Sheridan's Dictionary of the English language, both with regard to sound and meaning Vol. 1", by Thomas Sheridan A.M., Fourth Edition, London 1797.
Oh, and it's written: a1d´-my1-ra1l
a1 as in "hat", y1 as in "lovely" as stated in "Directions for foreigners" page 98 (xcviii).
For the record: a2 as in "hate", a3 as in "hall" y2 as in "lye".
Dude, no need to be such a dick about it, I get it you're smart, no need to stroke your own ego. Congratulations for wasting your time by debating on the internet for your petulant ego.
SMH man, just enjoy the kawai waifu professor haughty pretentious. I'm out, feel free to feel important by sticking yourself here and "artfully" argue with others.
I disagree with NNescio from time to time (the usual liberal vs conservative differences, heh) but nothing he said or has said here is warranting that kind of response. He is simply pointing out an error using the same source as the opposing opinion. He was a little short, but that was because he says that he already explained it thoroughly elsewhere. I have similar mannerisms IRL years ago trying to explain topics like immigration, drug wars, and weapon ownership to naive college students who never saw any of it first hand aside from what the MSM selectively feeds them. Saying someone is ignorant isn't an insult if it is true. We all are ignorant to some degree, and hitting our failure points is what allows us to correct and improve ourselves.
NNescio seems to have a fairly well rounded background. It makes sense to use the tools at your disposal when the opportunity arises, in this case it is his education. Is he stroking his own ego? Maybe, but that is his own personal business and not ours to analyze. All we can attack are his arguments, and right now I don't see any errors to his point.
And while it may not be really explicit, Danbooru does have a hierarchy system based on contribution, and right now NNescio ranks much higher than you or me. A degree of respect is warranted for a guy who puts free effort into this system for us all to enjoy on our lazy bums.
Thank you, 79248cm/s. I do disagree a bit on the part about pulling rank though (since it makes me feel a bit awkward, and I think it sort of gets in the way of an honest discussion), but yeah, hearing words of support from you (and other people) is what makes it worthwhile contributing to this site.
nr22 said:
Thanks for the breakdown. Unless the devs themselves come up with an explanation for the pronunciation, that'll settle it for me.
Yeah, I think what happened is that we have a good ESL speaker here (Warspite's voice performance is still pretty damned good even with the odd pronunciation) who isn't familiar with the word "admiral", and defaulted to "admire", a similar-looking word (despite the different etymologies).
I mean, I'm guilty of doing the same quite frequently as well, if I come across a new word without a dictionary (or the Internet) at hand. English orthography is quite unpredictable like that.
Yeah, I think what happened is that we have a good ESL speaker here (Warspite's voice performance is still pretty damned good even with the odd pronunciation) who isn't familiar with the word "admiral", and defaulted to "admire", a similar-looking word (despite the different etymologies).
That's honestly the best explanation. "Admire" does look a lot similar to "Admiral" and after teaching English for a while I've noticed Japanese people do get confused quite a lot about the pronunciations of vowels since English loves to change their sounds all over the place.
Again, the rest of her English is basically perfect so if someone is too hung up on Warspite's mispronunciation of "Admiral" I'd say they're being quite pretentious.
That's honestly the best explanation. "Admire" does look a lot similar to "Admiral" and after teaching English for a while I've noticed Japanese people do get confused quite a lot about the pronunciations of vowels since English loves to change their sounds all over the place.
Not just Japanese actually, anyone who aren't familiar with English or with certain uncommonly used English words will get confused with the pronunciations, like the "Milo" I mentioned in another post (is it "mee-lo" or "mai-lo"?).
Not just Japanese actually, anyone who aren't familiar with English or with certain uncommonly used English words will get confused with the pronunciations, like the "Milo" I mentioned in another post (is it "mee-lo" or "mai-lo"?).
Oh boy, names are particularly confusing. For most English speakers, it's pronounced "MAI-low" (IPA: /ˈmaɪloʊ/), with stress on the first syllable.
The original Greek name is Milos, which is pronounced as "mee-lows". This was not stressed (Ancient Greek has varying pitch like Japanese, but not stress like Latin, English, or Modern Greek). The Latinized version is "Milo", pronounced "MEE-low".
Both names are also inherited in various European languages, including English, German, French, Italian... even Czech and Russian. Basically nearly all European languages, really. Most English dialects pronounce it as "MAI-low", but a lot of other European languages tend to go with a more Latin or Greek-like pronunciation, ending up with something like "mee-low", "mee-loh", "mi-low" or "mi-loh" (Stress on the first syllable if any. Also note that the 'i' is like 'ee' but slightly withdrawn [lower and to the back of the mouth]). So yes, pronouncing this name 'correctly' in English can be very confusing for a lot of speakers.
In any case, the name of the drink should be pronounced as "MAI-low", since it's well, an Australian invention, and that was the intended pronunciation of its creator anyway.
We run into many similar problems in the sciences, where English speakers insist on 'butchering' the original pronunciation whenever they borrow a word from another language to create some new terminology. Biology has a lot of Latin names where the pronunciations are way off compared to the original Latin (ecclesiastical or classical). Chemistry has a bunch of terms derived from German words too, with a lot of speakers insisting on pronouncing the 'ch's and 'z's improperly. And let's not even get started with umlauts...
Edit: Oh, and Malaysian teachers have a tendency to call the "Poisson distribution" a "poison distribution". *groan*
Farran said:
That's honestly the best explanation. "Admire" does look a lot similar to "Admiral" and after teaching English for a while I've noticed Japanese people do get confused quite a lot about the pronunciations of vowels since English loves to change their sounds all over the place.
Again, the rest of her English is basically perfect so if someone is too hung up on Warspite's mispronunciation of "Admiral" I'd say they're being quite pretentious.
On a related note, I used to pronounce rendezvous as "ren-DEZ-vows", back in the old days before I learnt learned how to read IPA. Seriously, English borrows from so many languages one has to be a linguist of sorts who understands (or can guess) where the word is borrowed from to even pronounce it properly at first glance.
I also had a shitty English teacher (an ESL speaker herself) who insisted on pronouncing "tongue" as "TOHN-goo" and "setup" as "suh-TOOP".
To be honest, I feel like Iowa would work better for this joke. While Kongou's English isn't perfect, it's still fairly comprehensible and used sparingly.
I ain't bumping this comment because I don't want to rekindle it all, but I did a comment search for my username for the heck of it and found this. Pretty astounding I managed to miss a dumpster fire of this magnitude (both with the racial derpiness and the Engrish argument) on an image I don't have blacklisted.