"We will not be patching any pokémon into the game after its release.
...Unless you pay us an additional charge of half the game's initial price."
... Kind of? I mean, even without the expansion pass players will apparently be allowed to trade for and use the new old Pokemon, they just have no way of catching them themselves. Basically more or less like it's always been throughout the franchise.
Yeah, they backpedaled from a stupid decision, but going for DLC instead of a full price game v1.3 like Sapphire or Platinum doesn't seem worse, at least as far as I'm concerned. Not great, but also not worse.
Yeah, the pass is for new areas and content. The increased species availability should be free I believe.
Reminder that they can also bring in the Pokemon via their... whatever the current Pokemon Bank is called right now.
This route of releasing half-game content for half price is without a doubt better than USUM route of re-releasing half-game content for full price.
But it doesn't change the issue of SwSh being much too unpolished from the start as a Pokemon game, and DLCs being seen as the devil by player communities especially for a franchise that has avoided it mostly until now. And also the misinformation of what is paid DLC and what is a free update.
But if we treat it as any other "AAA" game, SwSh not really that far from the norm.
My opinion has always been "SwSh is a good game but it's not a good Pokemon game", and maybe it's time to temper expectations and to stop treating Pokemon as the pinnacle of video game franchises. It's okay to walk away if it's just no longer your thing, after all.
Yeah, the pass is for new areas and content. The increased species availability should be free I believe.
Reminder that they can also bring in the Pokemon via their... whatever the current Pokemon Bank is called right now.
This route of releasing half-game content for half price is without a doubt better than USUM route of re-releasing half-game content for full price.
But it doesn't change the issue of SwSh being much too unpolished from the start as a Pokemon game, and DLCs being seen as the devil by player communities especially for a franchise that has avoided it mostly until now. And also the misinformation of what is paid DLC and what is a free update.
But if we treat it as any other "AAA" game, SwSh not really that far from the norm.
My opinion has always been "SwSh is a good game but it's not a good Pokemon game", and maybe it's time to temper expectations and to stop treating Pokemon as the pinnacle of video game franchises. It's okay to walk away if it's just no longer your thing, after all.
There shouldn't even be misinformation floating around. It was specifically told in the Direct how GF does these things.
Or maybe it's spread by people that downvoted the Direct videos on Youtube by default but never actually watched the thing.
This could've been solved by creating a third game that's basically the mix of the two original release like what Crystal, Emerald and Platinum did
Basically a uniting game
Not sure how that would be better. Crystal still essentially is just Gold and Silver+, Emerald is just still Ruby and Sapphire+, and Platinum is still just Diamond and Pearl+. You still need to pay full price to get whatever the extra content and Pokemons are in there.
The strategy worked 10 years ago, but these days with Pokemon as a franchise already bashed for being unwilling to move with the times, their decision to essentially make SwSh+ just a DLC is an improvement. It sucks it's paid DLC, it sucks all the older mons weren't available in the first place, and it also sucked SwSh wasn't a better game in the first place, but this is an era where Miyamoto's quote of "a delayed game is eventually good, a rushed game is forever bad" no longer the truth. Bad and subpar games can be fixed, it's just a different issue of how much said fix will cost the company and the customers.
It's not ideal, but considering the game industry as a whole, nothing is.
Not sure how that would be better. Crystal still essentially is just Gold and Silver+, Emerald is just still Ruby and Sapphire+, and Platinum is still just Diamond and Pearl+. You still need to pay full price to get whatever the extra content and Pokemons are in there.
The strategy worked 10 years ago, but these days with Pokemon as a franchise already bashed for being unwilling to move with the times, their decision to essentially make SwSh+ just a DLC is an improvement. It sucks it's paid DLC, it sucks all the older mons weren't available in the first place, and it also sucked SwSh wasn't a better game in the first place, but this is an era where Miyamoto's quote of "a delayed game is eventually good, a rushed game is forever bad" no longer the truth. Bad and subpar games can be fixed, it's just a different issue of how much said fix will cost the company and the customers.
It's not ideal, but considering the game industry as a whole, nothing is.
nah Miyamoto's words can still apply to the likes of No Man's Sky... seriously how LONG did it take for it to be even considered "good" and then... Fallout 76... sure churn out an MMO using fallout 4 assests in 8 months surely it cant be THAT BAD right...? which is why I still put Bethesda into the company that makes buggy good games cause their games are buggy AF
This could've been solved by creating a third game that's basically the mix of the two original release like what Crystal, Emerald and Platinum did
Basically a uniting game
I’m actually almost afraid of something like this happening, similar to Sun and Moon plus their Ultra variants. Standalone games which were... Good enough, but certainly a new and almost empty feeling, only to release barely even half a year later with an updated new version.
The fact that SnS was missing a large chunk of the national dex and even had a fairly sparse regional dex were very obvious cues that they could have added more but are holding out. Not including every pokemon in the franchise, fine even if I don’t buy their excuse for it. But doing something like introducing the Charmander Line but not the rest of the Gen 1 starters? That is just bait.
Not to mention Dynamax. Putting aside how the games have effectively done away with Mega and Z-Moves, not being able to Dynamax your starters also felt odd. One would think of all pokemon that would introduce the player to unique Dynamax variants will be their own starters, but the fact that is absent made me also think “they’ll probably add that later”.
Not sure how that would be better. Crystal still essentially is just Gold and Silver+, Emerald is just still Ruby and Sapphire+, and Platinum is still just Diamond and Pearl+. You still need to pay full price to get whatever the extra content and Pokemons are in there.
The strategy worked 10 years ago, but these days with Pokemon as a franchise already bashed for being unwilling to move with the times, their decision to essentially make SwSh+ just a DLC is an improvement. It sucks it's paid DLC, it sucks all the older mons weren't available in the first place, and it also sucked SwSh wasn't a better game in the first place, but this is an era where Miyamoto's quote of "a delayed game is eventually good, a rushed game is forever bad" no longer the truth. Bad and subpar games can be fixed, it's just a different issue of how much said fix will cost the company and the customers.
It's not ideal, but considering the game industry as a whole, nothing is.
Pokemon is probably one of the few franchises where you really can't delay the games though. Because the games introduce the new region and pokemon, the anime, movies, TCG, and all the merchandise would have to be delayed if you delay the games.
nah Miyamoto's words can still apply to the likes of No Man's Sky... seriously how LONG did it take for it to be even considered "good" and then... Fallout 76... sure churn out an MMO using fallout 4 assests in 8 months surely it cant be THAT BAD right...? which is why I still put Bethesda into the company that makes buggy good games cause their games are buggy AF
Look at what MQN said up above. Pokemon as a franchise, like others such as Yugioh put strains on itself that it needs a big, new mainline title every 3-4 years otherwise everything else in the production line would also fall apart. And because it was already a massive franchise that it is, it made delaying impossible, even if it means hurting the product's quality as a result.
Should SwSh have a few hundred more staffs working on it? Certainly. And again, I said this as someone who wish SwSh base game is a massively better game than it currently is, but when the decision screwing the quality of the game comes from the management heads and not the developers, I don't know what to say.
Again, taking time fixing a game "until it's good" is a BAD strategy, don't get me wrong but cases like Fallout 76 is them actively NOT trying to fix it and is still trying to force the players to pay even more. SwSh's attempt is at least clearly far more commendable than that.
Pokemon is probably one of the few franchises where you really can't delay the games though. Because the games introduce the new region and pokemon, the anime, movies, TCG, and all the merchandise would have to be delayed if you delay the games.
Not a valid excuse imo. We, the people who buy and play the game, should not care if the main-series games have to coordinate with a vast media empire. If that coordination results in a shitty core product, we need to criticize it and not buy it.
Not a valid excuse imo. We, the people who buy and play the game, should not care if the main-series games have to coordinate with a vast media empire. If that coordination results in a shitty core product, we need to criticize it and not buy it.
And that's perfectly okay. Again no one's defending that SwSh wasn't a subpar game or that you don't have the rights to complain.
We are arguing that it is at least commendable that unlike companies like Bethesda or EA, Gamefreak is a company that is willing to recognize they fucked up and try to fix their mistake. Again it sucks that said fixing is going to cost us money, but at least there is an attempt being made and as fans we should just hope this will actually result in a better product in the end.
If you genuinely feel like the content being offered is worth $60 the base game and then another $30 for the expansion, then ... great, more power to ya. Hope you enjoy.
But I think I speak for a lot of people when I say that I'm just... tired. Tired of rampant unchecked money-grubbing capitalism hollowing out thing after thing that I once loved.
If you genuinely feel like the content being offered is worth $60 the base game and then another $30 for the expansion, then ... great, more power to ya. Hope you enjoy.
But I think I speak for a lot of people when I say that I'm just... tired. Tired of rampant unchecked money-grubbing capitalism hollowing out thing after thing that I once loved.
Nothing lasts forever. Gotta accept that.
While I agree to your point if it comes to other companies like EA and the millionth gacha games out there, I feel Pokemon's case is more out of incompetent management more than corporate greed.
Everyone already knows how horribad game developer working conditions are, so I'm willing to pay more if it means those people gets to eat. As long as they're not using manipulative tactics that goes into scam territory, people deserve rewards for their work.
As said before, even if we don't get this expansion we'll get Sharp Sword and Sturdy Shield or whatever SwSh+ is going to be either way. I'd rather pay 30 bucks for an extension to make my current subpar game better than 60 more bucks on a "totally new game" only to find they only put in minimal efforts a la Ultra Sun and Moon. And the tradition of third game goes way back to Crystal, so you can't even blame current greedy game company trend on it.
In Pokemon's case it's just the issue of them refusing to hire more people to work on the game for no justifiable reason, resulting in this unpolished product we get. Again, that's the fault of incompetency and not greed, that's why I'm willing to give them leeway when they are willing to realized they made a mistake. Let alone game company, it's just really rare to see any Japanese companies ever admitted to fucking up.
Everyone already knows how horribad game developer working conditions are, so I'm willing to pay more if it means those people gets to eat. As long as they're not using manipulative tactics that goes into scam territory, people deserve rewards for their work.
Not trying to refute the general gist of your statement - I'd agree for the most part - but this kind of thinking tends to not really lead to the desired results. That money you're paying? Chances are it's not going to improve the working conditions of the general staff. It's going wherever the company executives think it's needed, which usually means it ends up going towards their major shareholders, the salaries of their board members or towards making new/bigger/shinier products.
Sure, it's probably going a little ways towards keeping game developers employed, but if your goal is to improve a serf's lot in life, giving their feudal lord more money is rarely the way to go.
Dozla said: Sure, it's probably going a little ways towards keeping game developers employed, but if your goal is to improve a serf's lot in life, giving their feudal lord more money is rarely the way to go.
This, Dozla gets it. Our modern capitalist system really sucks because even if we boycott a company or product, it's the workers at the bottom who get hurt first. The lizards at the top keep their paychecks until everyones' final breath.
This, Dozla gets it. Our modern capitalist system really sucks because even if we boycott a company or product, it's the workers at the bottom who get hurt first. The lizards at the top keep their paychecks until everyones' final breath.
yeah! thats a discussion i had with another group , where we comes to the same conclusion as well. Yeah! we can called it out and all , but honestly the problem began from up there and those up there will always been somehow the unnafected ones , even if their BS are expoused all over internet.
Not trying to refute the general gist of your statement - I'd agree for the most part - but this kind of thinking tends to not really lead to the desired results. That money you're paying? Chances are it's not going to improve the working conditions of the general staff. It's going wherever the company executives think it's needed, which usually means it ends up going towards their major shareholders, the salaries of their board members or towards making new/bigger/shinier products.
Sure, it's probably going a little ways towards keeping game developers employed, but if your goal is to improve a serf's lot in life, giving their feudal lord more money is rarely the way to go.
Oh I know that alright. Problem is, unless you directly influence the workers to unionize and demand for better, or you become the CEO of those giant companies yourself, there isn't much of anything you can do as a customer.
And I mean look at something like EA or Bethesda, even if you and a thousand other people all boycott their games, they won't even show a shadow that they're going to learn anything.
Even if you somehow gets everyone to outright stop buying it, then those corporate heads would very well still rather see the entire industry crash, burn and drag everyone down into the hellfire with them before they'll admit they did anything wrong. Which is why supporting someone who's willing to rectify their mistake is important.
Gamefreak is had at least heard that making their game on what is essentially a skeleton crew for a AAA product isn't a good idea. Best we can hope is they actually correct that mistake. It's wishful thinking, but at least I hope some spirit of Iwata remains.
This, Dozla gets it. Our modern capitalist system really sucks because even if we boycott a company or product, it's the workers at the bottom who get hurt first. The lizards at the top keep their paychecks until everyones' final breath.
That's not how capitalism works. If you don't buy something it isn't with the intention to depress a company/product, but because you don't think it is worth the money. If you want better games, either be an entrepreneur and make your own game or buy from someone who does make the game you like. Competition is the essence of capitalism and it benefits employees too as there are more opportunities for upward mobility. This is a huge reason why indie gaming has boomed the past few decades.
Like it or not, the fact remains that people will buy incomplete games and pay for DLC because they personally believe it to be worth it. Most people do not have the time to play a vast majority of titles, they will only play one or two primary games and for them it is reasonable to invest more money into that one as they play it. The amount of people who actually find issue are for the most part a minority, as at the end of the day, tons of people still buy titles from the publishers considered to be "money grabbing". If you want to change a company's practices, you aren't going to do it as a consumer, you have to either be part of that company or in the same market and become a competitor. As a consumer, you choose to not have skin in the game, so your purchase should be limited to wither or not you think it is worth X dollars of fun or not.
And of course, as the consumer you have time on your side. You can simply not choose to buy the latest and greatest and wait for it to go on sale or be sold used. The consumer is entitled to as much benefit as he is willing to pay for.