In what circumstances would you say it's right to tag two side up and twintails in reference to the same character's hairstyle then? Ditto with one side up and side ponytail on the same hairstyle.

If you think it's not necessarily wrong to tag a hairstyle with both tags then you must think there are circumstances in which doing so is the right thing to do and thus that it would be wrong not to tag them with both.

kuuderes_shadow said:

In what circumstances would you say it's right to tag two side up and twintails in reference to the same character's hairstyle then? Ditto with one side up and side ponytail on the same hairstyle.

If you think it's not necessarily wrong to tag a hairstyle with both tags then you must think there are circumstances in which doing so is the right thing to do and thus that it would be wrong not to tag them with both.

I'm still most likely echoing the same sentiment I had in forum #123647, that I think two side up is basically a subset of twintails and one side up is a subset of side ponytail. That's why I don't disagree with them tagging them both. Why I say it's not necessarily wrong is because I think taggers are inclined to tag both when they're unsure (due to the fact that the bulk of two side up "tails" can really vary) or share the same opinion as I do, since both (if considered separate hairstyles) embody part of the other's style.

I've almost always tagged two side up alone when I see it. It's just now I have this passing thought where it does make sense that two side up is twintails, but I do understand the concern if one get merged into the other as a subset -- it makes searching for twintails where pretty much all of the bulk of the hair is tied into twintails harder. Maybe one solution is to have a tag for the kind of twintails that does have that feature, and then have twintails be a wholly encompassing tag that both two side up and the proposed tag implicate, but the problem is that that kind of solution isn't really intuitive for anyone. And it would require an ungodly amount of gardening.

And of course, the same kind of problem with one side up and side ponytail, although that one I consider to be much more obvious. It's just that the one side up tag is not very much prevalent. Before this discussion I wasn't even aware that tag existed.

EDIT: Added some clarification.

+1 to letting two_side_up imply twintails. It makes sense as a subset, and it's just one negated tag to add in those cases where one is only interested in "full" twintails.

I'm not sure there's any meaningful difference between one_side_up and side_ponytail as actually tagged. The wiki for side_ponytail cites flandre_scarlet as an example, but she usually doesn't have all or even most of her hair bunched up in her side tail. That said, +1 to letting the former imply the latter anyway. With that implication, none of the existing side_ponytail taggings will be incorrect, and people can add one_side_up wherever it applies, if they want to bother.

Flopsy said:

+1 to letting two_side_up imply twintails. It makes sense as a subset, and it's just one negated tag to add in those cases where one is only interested in "full" twintails.

I'm not sure there's any meaningful difference between one_side_up and side_ponytail as actually tagged. The wiki for side_ponytail cites flandre_scarlet as an example, but she usually doesn't have all or even most of her hair bunched up in her side tail. That said, +1 to letting the former imply the latter anyway. With that implication, none of the existing side_ponytail taggings will be incorrect, and people can add one_side_up wherever it applies, if they want to bother.

Ah, you're right on that note, save for if there's one character with two side up and another with full twintails, which is what kuudere seemed to imply in forum #123663. It seems to be a "here and there" thing though, but I may be wrong. I haven't looked through multiple_girls two_side_up twintails extensively. Heck, we might even be running into the same problem searching for that already, because again with the assumption of some two side up styles being twintails also.

I do understand the importance of keeping them separate, but the fact of the matter is that a lot of taggers are divided on whether to tag them one, the other, or both in the appearance of a two side up or one side up hairstyle. It's especially apparent since some of the less experienced taggers won't know about two side up and tag twintails anyway because it's what they see.

It's a very unclean divide, and I think that if either twintails or side ponytail are supersets of two side up and one side up respectively, then gardening for both of the latter tags will be much easier than how it is right now.

For now I'll also be +1 on the tentative implications of two side up -> twintails and one side up -> side ponytail, but this is a huge decision; these are tags that are very popular in the database, so before I (or someone else) make the implication I do want others to chime back into this discussion.