Posted under General
I'd like to see about putting together a tag group for the various states of dress and undress that a character might find herself in. This would be distinct from the Attire and Sexual Attire tag groups in that it isn't about what is being worn; it's about what's being covered, what isn't, and how. This would include things like shirt_tug, skirt_lift, upskirt, and bottomless.
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Good idea. Here's a more or less unorganized list of all the tags I can come up with right now. Discuss.
bottomless probably should be reversed with no_panties, since bottomless covers images in which things like skirts and pants are missing, but panties could still be present.
NWF_Renim said:
bottomless probably should be reversed with no_panties, since bottomless covers images in which things like skirts and pants are missing, but panties could still be present.
I always thought bottomless meant absolutely no bottoms.
Over a year ago I took a look at what was under the bottomless tag and redefined the wiki in an attempt to reflect at least most of the things going under the tag. Thinking back on it, it resulted in the incorporation of two different concepts, which are being naked from the waist down and merely not wearing lower body outerwear. It doesn't help either that some people view bottomless as being an alias for no panties (since most cases of bottomless dress should be no panties instead).
Unlike topless where you could have an alternative tag shirtless (seems to be used nearly almost only for males though) to cover the middle ground, bottomless doesn't have such a catchall tag. If you said pantsless or skirtless the actual appearance of female characters in either would be identical, but you'd be making the assumption that you knew what the character was wearing beforehand (also note women don't only wear skirts).
jjj14 said:
I always thought bottomless meant absolutely no bottoms.
There will never be agreement on how to use this tag.
evazion said:
Good idea. Here's a more or less unorganized list of all the tags I can come up with right now. Discuss.
There's also shirt_tug, which involves trying to remain covered up. As well, there's a down_blouse that ought to go with sideboob and underboob, and a downpants and upskirt that are similar to skirt_lift and pants_pull, respectively. And there's open_bra.
Also, in no particular order:
On the subject of bottomless vs. no_panties, we already have wiki pages for each which explain the difference. I recommend that for the purpose of putting together this tag group, we should proceed on the assumption that people will tag according to what the wiki pages say, and debate the matter further on the relevant wiki pages.
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This still in the works?
strap_slip would seem to also go under this.
unicogirl said:
This still in the works?
I think we've got a good start here, sufficient to put up as a work-in-progress tag group. (But then again, aren't they all works in progress?) Any disagreements?
Nope.
So far, everything seems to be here. The most obvious tags.
I'm going to use evazion's post as a template, incorporate subsequent tag suggestions, and add commentary:
bra_lift, shirt_lift, and bikini_lift generally expose the upper body, while dress_lift and skirt_lift usually expose the lower body.
Likewise, bra_pull, dress_pull, shirt_pull, and swimsuit_pull normally expose the upper body; buruma_pull, skirt_pull, pants_pull, panty_pull, and pantyhose_pull normally expose the lower body; and bikini_pull might expose either or both, depending on whether you're referring to the top or the bottom.
Similar to, but not the same as, the *_aside tags. Should probably be nearer to them (or vice versa).
This one differs from most of the others, since it's more about concealment than exposure. In particular, it's about using the shirt to cover for the failing of the bottom wear.
Tag Group:Body Parts already covers the following: armpits, breasts, navel, and ass. OTOH, some of these don't describe a body part so much as they describe the partial exposure of a body part: sideboob and underboob are probably fine, as is buttcrack (I think), and cleavage.
Likewise, I'm not sure if midriff refers to a state of dress or a body part.
I'm withdrawing my suggestions of down_blouse, downpants, and upskirt. Those aren't about states of dress; they're about point of view. I'd suggest a "points of view" tag group as well, but I doubt that there are enough tags to warrant it.
OTOH, these definitely belong here: they focus on the absence of clothing that you'd normally expect to find, rather than on what the clothing was supposed to be covering.
(Edited in response to NWF_Renim.)
The trick to this subset of tags is to avoid getting too specific: there's no difference between "no pants" and "no skirt"; but you might be able to get away with "no bottom wear" (distinct from "bottomless" in that one would indicate the total exposure of the lower body, while the other would merely indicate the absence of lower outerwear such as pants or a skirt).
strap_slip and unzipped are similar in that they're not about what's being done to particular articles of clothing so much as what's being done to the parts of the clothing that are supposed to hold them in place: straps hold the top up, while zippers keep closed the pants, skirts, dresses, and so on.
As mentioned above, these should probably be clustered with the *_around_the_leg tags.
These imply that something's wrong with the clothing. I'm thinking that they should be next to the open_* tags.
Nothing has been moved out of place or damaged in any way; but the clothing fails to conceal what it covers.
Not so much a state of dress as an activity that changes one's state of dress. Should we keep these?
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Actually what I was pointing out is that the current use of bottomless includes both concepts, though it has been defined as "no bottom wear," thus it is not a subdivision of no_panties as it stands. So you somewhat missed what I was saying.
Well, I put words in your mouth, for which I apologize. But I didn't miss what you're saying. Take that section as my proposal for how it ought to be handled: no_panties refers to the lack of underwear on the lower body; no_bottom_wear refers to the lack of outerwear on the lower body; bottomless refers to the lack of both. So it would be:
What state of dress would you use for post #527094?
Should naked_apron, naked_cape, naked_overalls, naked_ribbon, and naked_shirt be tag group:states of dress? If so, should they also remain in tag_group:sexual attire?
Likewise, should nude, topless, bottomless, no_bra, no_panties, midriff, open_clothes, open_shirt, and open_robe be removed from Tag Group:Sexual Attire once this tag group is in place?
And should see-through and torn_clothes be removed from Tag Group:Attire?
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Some of the tag groups have overlapping material. For ones that easily fit into both correctly, I don't see a reason to remove it from one in favor of another.
post #527094 wouldn't that be undressing and/or swimsuit_aside? It could potentially fit under bottomless as well.
Speaking of the naked_clothing tags, it always bothered me that most of them share nearly identical appearing cousin concepts. Instead of the character being naked they're only wearing underwear with the item, but such things have no tags unlike their naked counterparts.
You're right about bottomless.
There is a nearly_naked_apron tag; this could be expanded to a nearly_naked_* subset paralleling the naked_* subset.
