Looking through Yuyuko and Youmu's posts, I notice that barely any are tagged with myon. Is Myon ignored unless it's an important part of the image, or should Myon always be tagged?

I also notice that there is only one post with hitodama (this is what Myon is - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hitodama ). Is this not named, or is another term used? If it's unknown (though I doubt it), I'll try to start tagging and add a simple wiki entry for it. Or if I learn another term, I'll request an alias.

Myon is always present along with Youmu unless the artist is forgetful, so I'd suggest it should ideally be "ignored unless it's an important part of the image", like in post #9898 or post #121091. There doesn't seem to be any consistency in the way the tag is applied now, so you'll have to go through all Youmu posts if you would like there to be.

It seems like ghost is sometimes used for Myon and the random hitodama that float around Yuyuko, but for obvious reasons it's hard to tell.

7HS said: Myon is always present along with Youmu unless the artist is forgetful, so I'd suggest it should ideally be "ignored unless it's an important part of the image", like in post #9898 or post #121091.

This is my position as well.

I had guessed that. Thanks for the replies.
(Edit: The myon tag is used a lot in cases where Myon doesn't seem as important... should I remove the tag on these images, or leave them?)

What about the hitodama tag?

Why do people think Youmu's ghost half is named "Myon" anyway? "Myon" is a nickname for Youmu herself. It has nothing to do with the ghost half.

^ To the post above

Myon isn't a nickname for her ghost half. Originally it was some random word Youmu said during a conflict and people misinterpreted it as her referring to her ghost half as such.

In the Japanese fandom, 'Myon' is a nickname for Youmu. In the American fandom, 'Myon' is a nickname for Youmu's ghost half.

It's not entirely clear to me why you bumped a year-old forum post to talk about this.

Better than starting a new thread to ask about it.

Anyway, it seems pretty weird to repurpose names that already have accepted meaning for other things. And I was under the impression that Danbooru favoured the original Japanese vocabulary in general, so having "Myon" mean something else than it does in Japanese seems out of place.

Not to mention that it's confusing to newcomers.

Oh, now I see it's a tagging question. I thought you were just expressing general wonderment at first.

At any rate, if we were to stop using myon for Youmu's ghost half, we'd have to alias it to something else, and there aren't too many good candidates. I don't think "hitodama" is quite accurate, and a cursory Google search doesn't seem to reveal too many Japanese people using that to refer to it. The usual term of reference I see in doujin and such is 半靈, which is just "ghost half", and personally, I'd rather stick with myon than alias it to youmu's_ghost_half.

Well, yeah, it's mainly question of tagging on danbooru, but I do also in fact wonder where this idea came from in the first place.

Also, wouldn't danbooru standard be something like "konpaku_youmu_(ghost_half)"? That just kind of emphasizes that the tag is pretty useless in the first place, though.

WAHa_06x36 said:
Well, yeah, it's mainly question of tagging on danbooru, but I do also in fact wonder where this idea came from in the first place.

My guess would be a mistranslation somewhere along the line, but any documentation of the real reason seems to have been lost to the sands of time. ┐(´д｀)┌

And yeah, I guess konpaku_youmu_(ghost) does parallel kaenbyou_rin_(cat) and reiuji_utsuho_(bird). Something about it still rubs me the wrong way, but as long as there's an alias from myon to the new tag, I'll cope.

Maybe what rubs you the wrong way is that it's a pretty useless tag in the first place, since the ghost half is just part of her character design. It's much like having a hakurei_reimu_(ribbon) tag.

I have to disagree with your opinion on this matter, WAHa. The ghost half has been depicted by itself before myon -konpaku_youmu, and unlike your comparison to the ribbon, the ghost half has a much more animate presence in the image than a specific article of clothing. Unlike a ribbon which is simply an object, the ghost half can be depicted much more animated and there have been representations of it as more than simply a ghostly blob floating in the background. If you wish to compare it, it is much more similar to Suwako's hat, since it as well has sometimes been depicted as an independent animate/living entity.

glasnost said:

I guess konpaku_youmu_(ghost) does parallel kaenbyou_rin_(cat) and reiuji_utsuho_(bird).

...Which would lead us to tag tatara_kogasa_(umbrella) when the umbrella is using its tongue to do something apparently independent from Kogasa (girl)'s actions, right?

NWF_Renim said:

t is much more similar to Suwako's hat[.][/quote]Myonta-kun? :p

Katajanmarja said:
...Which would lead us to tag tatara_kogasa_(umbrella) when the umbrella is using its tongue to do something apparently independent from Kogasa (girl)'s actions, right?

Hey, why not? Actually, such a tag would be highly relevant to my interests; I might just go ahead and start tagging that if nobody has any objections.

A while ago there was a discussion about tagging the absence of a hat (forum #37815). Let me quote a good comment from that topic:

Shinjidude said:

These exceptional absence tags need to be used with expectation in mind. The expectation of a hat based on costume should trump the expectation of a hat based on a character (and their default costume).

Put another way if you wouldn't expect a character to wear a hat given what they are wearing in the image, then exceptional absence tags (like no_hat) shouldn't apply.

And let me further quote what has been said about the pyonta tag (forum #29596):

jxh2154 said:

I guess we can start using it. But only for images where "hat as distinct character" is present. If someone starts tagging it on every image where Suwako is wearing the hat, I'll have to hit them.

If we combine those precedents with what has been suggested here for using konpaku_youmu_(ghost) ~ myon and tatara_kogasa_(umbrella), then a need for two further tags will arise:

• no_ghost

• no_umbrella

Theoretically, this would lead to the following groupings:

• Youmu:
• konpaku_youmu no_ghost: the girl without the ghost
• konpaku_youmu -konpaku_youmu_(ghost): the girl with the ghost, a neutral take
• konpaku_youmu konpaku_youmu_(ghost): the girl and the ghost featured, a special focus on the ghost
• -konpaku_youmu konpaku_youmu_(ghost): the ghost without the girl

• Kogasa:
• tatara_kogasa no_umbrella: the girl without the umbrella
• tatara_kogasa -tatara_kogasa_(umbrella): the girl with the umbrella, a neutral take
• tatara_kogasa tatara_kogasa_(umbrella): the girl and the umbrella featured, a special focus on the umbrella
• -tatara_kogasa tatara_kogasa_(umbrella): the umbrella without the girl

• Suwako:
• moriya_suwako no_hat: the girl without the hat
• moriya_suwako hat: the girl with the hat, a neutral take
• moriya_suwako pyonta: the girl and the hat (or hat-creature) featured, a special focus on the hat
• -moriya_suwako pyonta: the hat or hat-creature without the girl

This is where my logic takes me, but it does sound... complicated. Not to mention impossible to tag without specialized knowledge on the Touhou universe.

The "pyonta" bit is a little questionable too. From what I can tell "Pyonta" is just a throwaway joke that a few artists used, and it was mainly used for when Suwako's hat grew arms and legs.

Even if it was a throwaway joke, it's still a better name than suwako's hat (and it does actually refer to the object in question).

I really feel like all of this is much too complicated when the status quo has always worked very well.

And a generic "no_umbrella" or "no_ghost" tag strikes me as highly unnecessary.