Request Tag Alias Reversal shiki_eiki <- shikieiki_yamaxanadu

Reason: To try to get rid of a dub induced error and to prevent any further confusion on her name.
Her actual name (in western order) is "Eiki Shiki, Yamaxanadu". I'll suggest using only her name since commas are not used in tags.

Calling her Shikieiki Yamaxanadu-sama is like calling him Mr. Barackobama Misterpresident.

I heard about this recently and had no idea myself until I saw a thread about it. I'd love to see things like this getting fixed (I've heard Reimu's 7.5 theme mystic oriental love consultation is an awful translation too). To be clear:

Given name: Eiki
Family name: Shiki
Position/Job Title: Yamaxanadu (roughly: death god of paradise)

Honestly I argue we keep it as is.

Or we go Shiki_Eiki_Yamaxanadu Not sure if we could use the commas in tag being effectively Shiki Eiki, Yamaxanadu. It's odd as put even in her PMiSS article it has her name including her title. She's the only one to be like this and we probably should reflect in the tagging. But considering how many other things we have problems with tagwise it feels like a 'feel good' change.

OK so you argue against. Now can you actually make an argument please.

Serlo said:

OK so you argue against. Now can you actually make an argument please.

I had to edit the post. Unless you've throw away my edited argument as pointless.

No, I replied too early, my bad.

Anyway you're still going on about "feel good" changes. Don't do that, it belittles other's arguments, and whilst sometimes people are too pedantic about changes, most of the time they're not. OP expressed that the purpose here is to start a trend and to fix a translation. As translations are a key part of danbooru, this is not a throw-away "feel good" proposal. (For an example of one, go look up the now-lock holo vs horo thread.)

As for your argument that she's the only character treated this way, then I think others could find plenty similar cases where their title or nickname is not reflected in the tag.

Serlo said:

No, I replied too early, my bad.

Anyway you're still going on about "feel good" changes. Don't do that, it belittles other's arguments, and whilst sometimes people are too pedantic about changes, most of the time they're not. OP expressed that the purpose here is to start a trend and to fix a translation. As translations are a key part of danbooru, this is not a throw-away "feel good" proposal. (For an example of one, go look up the now-lock holo vs horo thread.)

As for your argument that she's the only character treated this way, then I think others could find plenty similar cases where their title or nickname is not reflected in the tag.

Problem is here that in every official media source she's listed as 四季映姫・ヤマザナドゥ (Shiki Eiki Yamaxamadu) for her name. I'd rather go with the Shiki_Eiki_Yamaxanadu over just Shiki_Eiki alone. It reflects things better and works as a better compromise than just going with Shiki_Eiki as the tag.

I quite like shikieiki_yamaxanadu, but we don't include titles for any other Touhou character AFAIK, so it seems shiki_eiki is the way to go if we want to be consistent. Unless perhaps "Yamaxanadu" is a type of title that Japanese speakers treat more as a name rather than a title, which might explain why it is always included on official sources (apparently titles and names are not as clear-cut in Japanese as they are in most other languages).

In any case, it's pretty surprising this wasn't brought up before, I can't find any previous discussions, not even about the current alias.

Fred1515 said:

I quite like shikieiki_yamaxanadu, but we don't include titles for any other Touhou character AFAIK, so it seems shiki_eiki is the way to go if we want to be consistent. Unless perhaps "Yamaxanadu" is a type of title that Japanese speakers treat more as a name rather than a title, which might explain why it is always included on official sources (apparently titles and names are not as clear-cut in Japanese as they are in most other languages).

In any case, it's pretty surprising this wasn't brought up before, I can't find any previous discussions, not even about the current alias.

Trying to think of of Western equivalents and the closest I have are Some cases of Royalty and the Pope in all honesty, since you tend to refer to them by Title Name.

In any case, it's pretty surprising this wasn't brought up before, I can't find any previous discussions, not even about the current alias.

I think it was sparked by one of the latest games, where there was a tricky name to translate and that got people talking about previous cases of imperfect and awkward translations.

Change often doesn't feel good, but I assumed that most people who read translated touhou webcomics on dabooru would already know her name.
We do seem to use titles in tags, most often professor_*. This appears to be the case when the character is called that way in the official material, but also only when the full name is not known.

On the topic of name translations that should be fixed, I made a topic for Namazu and Hisou Tensoku a year ago: topic #7577

Waitaminute. Can commas be used in tags? Maybe we can go with shiki_eiki,_yamaxanadu since that would match the touhou wiki's nomenclature.

AyaReiko said:

Can commas be used in tags?

No.

The site strips all commas and percent signs from tags.

Toks said:

No.

The site strips all commas and percent signs from tags.

Okay so it'd be shiki_eiki_yamaxanadu then for our tag idea if we do it this way. Since we can't put in the comma.

Fred1515 said:

we don't include titles for any other Touhou character AFAIK, so it seems shiki_eiki is the way to go if we want to be consistent.

This argument speaks to me, it really does. +1.

On the other hand, I must point out something worth a thought or two:

Fred1515 said:

Unless perhaps "Yamaxanadu" is a type of title that Japanese speakers treat more as a name rather than a title, (...) (apparently titles and names are not as clear-cut in Japanese as they are in most other languages).

Take a look at English and German Wikipedia articles on people like Manfred Albrecht Freiherr von Richthofen and Eduard Ritter von Schleich. The way the titles seem incorporated into names surprised me some years ago.

Katajanmarja said:

On the other hand, I must point out something worth a thought or two:

Take a look at English and German Wikipedia articles on people like Manfred Albrecht Freiherr von Richthofen and Eduard Ritter von Schleich. The way the titles seem incorporated into names surprised me some years ago.

In a way Her name may in part be tied into her name in a similar way as full name is that in the formal listings. Since we know she was made into Yama from a jizou statue (Komachi says this in OSP) and thus she may have Yamaxamadu being attached to her full name in a similar way to the examples you mentioned. It's an odd case.

Katajanmarja said:
Take a look at English and German Wikipedia articles on people like Manfred Albrecht Freiherr von Richthofen and Eduard Ritter von Schleich. The way the titles seem incorporated into names surprised me some years ago.

That's because in Germany titles of nobility are no valid titles anymore. There were two possibilities, remove them altogether or make them part of the last name. The latter was done. Valid titles are in front, like Professor.

About shikieiki_yamaxanadu, according to danbooru naming conventions it should be shiki_eiki without the title. Alas the title here seems like an integral part of the name. If we want to include the title it should be distinguished from the name, shiki_eiki_yamaxanadu won't do. Shiki_eiki_(yamaxanadu) is the best I can come up with.

Actually, here's how her name is spelt in Japanese script: 四季映姫・ヤマザナドゥ

Her name is in Kanji, while her title is in Katakana following a "・". Japanese readers would instantly notice the Yamaxanadu part is not a part of her name.

Schrobby said:
About shikieiki_yamaxanadu, according to danbooru naming conventions it should be shiki_eiki without the title. Alas the title here seems like an integral part of the name. If we want to include the title it should be distinguished from the name, shiki_eiki_yamaxanadu won't do. Shiki_eiki_(yamaxanadu) is the best I can come up with.

I think we should go with just the name only. There really isn't a good way to differentiate titles from names with current Danbooru tag standards, and keeping her title as a part of her tag might be too confusing for those who don't know her title isn't a part of her name.

Schrobby said:
About shikieiki_yamaxanadu, according to danbooru naming conventions it should be shiki_eiki without the title. Alas the title here seems like an integral part of the name. If we want to include the title it should be distinguished from the name, shiki_eiki_yamaxanadu won't do. Shiki_eiki_(yamaxanadu) is the best I can come up with.

Problem with the use of (Yamaxanadu) is we tend to use Parenthesis additions to name certain features such as Hong_Meiling_(panda) for when Meiling's drawn as a Panda. So that option seems to clash with the naming convention we've set up for things. So Arguably I still say Shiki_Eiki_Yamaxanadu is the best choice we have here.

AyaReiko said:

I think we should go with just the name only. There really isn't a good way to differentiate titles from names with current Danbooru tag standards, and keeping her title as a part of her tag might be too confusing for those who don't know her title isn't a part of her name.

Problem is either way we're doing it is going to confuse people.